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[ShadeDragon]

Alright, I'm getting to the point where my siege engineers are cranking out some decent quality parts and my operators can launch with some speed. However, since siege engines can't fire up or down z levels I'm of course going to have to build it at ground level where, from what I've read, fortifications are much less effective. Now, my question is, will the fortifications effect the accuracy of my ballistas, and will multiple layers of fortifications aid the survival of my operators?

[sonerohi]

Ballista rounds automatically pass fortifications, and the only thing that determines fortification usefulness is a check of distance versus archer's skill.

[ShadeDragon]

So then multiple layers should cause multiple checks? Therefore having 8-10 layers of fortifications around my ballista will make it almost impenetrable vs their long range since each fort should cause a roll and thus probability would be on my side, and won't effect the damage output of my siege engine... If so... *glee*

[Albedo]

Ballista rounds automatically pass fortifications...

~All~ fortifications, no matter how many layers, no matter how far away? Haven't tried it, but that's not how it works with archery/crossbows.  You sure? 

[Demetrious]

So then multiple layers should cause multiple checks? Therefore having 8-10 layers of fortifications around my ballista will make it almost impenetrable vs their long range since each fort should cause a roll and thus probability would be on my side, and won't effect the damage output of my siege engine... If so... *glee*

Effectiveness of fortifications at blocking shots are a function of distance from the shooter to the fortification- no matter WHO is shooting at it. This applies to your dwarves.

Basically, fortifications work like real loopholes do- the defender, standing right next to it, has no problem shooting out, while the attacker, at a good distance, has a lot of trouble hitting the very small target. In real life combat, loopholes have often been turned against the defenders when the attackers ran right up to them and shot the defenders "through their own loopholes," and that can happen to your dwarves as well.

This also means that if you put four layers of fortifications between your dwarves and the enemy, your ballistas will have some trouble firing through ALL of them. They'll be shooting through four loopholes, all in a row. On the other hand, those fortifications are still pretty close, so the net block rate should be fairly low.

[Goron]

->  ballista
X  fortification
.  ground
=/||  channel

Code: [Select]

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->X.....||
XXX.....||
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That keeps the enemy archers 6 (or more) tiles away from the fortification

[Footkerchief]

~All~ fortifications, no matter how many layers, no matter how far away? Haven't tried it, but that's not how it works with archery/crossbows.  You sure? 

I'm pretty sure.  I've never seen fortifications successfully block any siege projectile.  They don't work exactly like other projectiles.

[Albedo]

<shrugs and nods>

Okay, I'll have to check that out!

[Demetrious]

~All~ fortifications, no matter how many layers, no matter how far away? Haven't tried it, but that's not how it works with archery/crossbows.  You sure? 

I'm pretty sure.  I've never seen fortifications successfully block any siege projectile.  They don't work exactly like other projectiles.

Oh.

Well, then, fortify away.

[Shoku]

->  ballista
X  fortification
.  ground
=/||  channel

Code: [Select]

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XXX.....||
->X.....||
XXX.....||
........||
........||
........||
........||
========
That keeps the enemy archers 6 (or more) tiles away from the fortification

Unless they can fly :<

[Albedo]

That keeps the enemy archers 6 (or more) tiles away from the fortification

Okay - is there a definitive distance that the BBEG's need to be kept? I've read 5 tiles, I've read 5 tiles, I've read 10 tiles for larger creatures (spec. "trolls"), I've read that it's not perfectly predictable - is there anyone who knows, either from personal experimentation or just brute force experience?

[yggiz]

Okay - is there a definitive distance that the BBEG's need to be kept? I've read 5 tiles, I've read 5 tiles, I've read 10 tiles for larger creatures (spec. "trolls"), I've read that it's not perfectly predictable - is there anyone who knows, either from personal experimentation or just brute force experience?

Don't get any illusion that there is a perfect solution, there isn't. The biggest problem I have had is the siege operator civilians running away when the see the enemy marching towards them. Make sure they have a large (lengthwise) field of fire. Like what a hundred tile hallway. Whatever you decide on your length of killzone, add your fortified siege engines onto that.

You will be able to get some shots off as the enemy walks down the hallway. You will be frustrated when your operators flee when they get too close. What is too close? Up to 20 squares sometimes. Enough for you to get angry, but the long hallway will give you some kills before your dwarves run. Despite all that, siege weapons are fun as hell to fire at invaders.

Check out some of the siege weapon topics here, and movies on dfma. You can see the action, in action, and make your plans accordingly. Good luck.

[Albedo]

I like "variable" better, actually, esp at the closer ranges.   

[zooeyglass]

i read that ballistas and catapults could fire up and down z-levels...is there a conclusive answer on that one?

[Guy Montag]

Give your Seige engine operators the hunting labor, and have them carry crossbows.