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[Albedo]

Minor question, but it breaks a basic assumption I had about the game.

I start this last fort given a  pair of muskox that pulled my wagon - but not a breeding pair!  Two males (figures). 

Is this a known exception to the "alternating sex" model for acquiring animals?

Only a minor disappointment/setback, but like I said, it's more the fact of it that caught my attention.

[Tizer]

Did you Buy one on embark and one with the wagon? If so they both will always  be male. I tryed the same thing with horses.

[Byakugan01]

No, that's not the issue, since he said that both were from the pair which pulled the wagon. (Unless I'm reading Albedo's post incorrectly).

I don't think its a bug, since often (for me, at least) the two beasts of burden who hauled the wagon are usually different types anyway. So the game may have applied different protocols for the gender selection of the wagon beasts, but I'm not sure. I do recall, though, that the one time I had two of the same, they were different genders. Maybe it's just 50/50 whether they are different genders or not, with regards to the beasts of burden?

[Albedo]

No, that's not the issue, since he said that both were from the pair which pulled the wagon. (Unless I'm reading Albedo's post incorrectly).

No, you read correctly...

I start this last fort given a  pair of muskox that pulled my wagon...

I do try to say what I mean - don't always succeed, but did in this case. (maybe just a 50/50 chance...)

Maybe it's just 50/50 whether they are different genders or not, with regards to the beasts of burden?

Yeah, usually I draw different species to haul the wagon (and never buy them), but I always worked under the impression that any time the game gives you animals, they alternate in gender.

Guess... not so much, at least in this case. 

Multiple dogs/cats bought on embark certainly work that way, even to rigidly alternating in the creature list - male/female/male/female... all down the list.

I'll wait for more response, and if none then bounce it out as a possible bug, but more probably it's time to update the wiki.

[Derakon]

I strongly suspect that the game just picks two creatures randomly from the list of valid beasts of burden, and picks gender randomly for those two. After all, gender's going to be irrelevant in the vast majority of cases (where you get two beasts of different species) anyway.

Mind, it'd be nice if you could select your starting beasts as part of your loadout at the start of the game.

[Albedo]

I agree as far as that's concerned (tho' it might also depend on starting civ and their climate/biome, etc). 

It'd be nice if the rare times you did get a matched pair they were a mating pair.

But otoh, that would be a huge windfall.  Maybe the opposite - maybe it was programmed so you'd never have a mating pair? Hard to know for sure.

Has anyone had a mating pair from the beasts pulling their wagon in the current version? (I know people reported it in earlier versions, to the point that, iirc, it was expected if both animals were the same species.)

[Jurph]

No, but I have drawn an already-pregnant female musk ox, who proceeded to give birth to a pair of mixed-gender offspring.  Six generations later I've got the most delicious inbred musk oxen this side of the Mountainhome. 

Is there any gameplay reason that the dwarves wouldn't set out with (a) two animals of the same species pulling the wagon, and (b) a breeding pair to hasten future success?

[Albedo]

As far as "a" goes, because it's reported that any animals you get alternate sex.  If "except for the animals that pull your wagon", that should be added to the wiki.

(How soon after embark did the ox give birth?)
(And why is this starting to sound like the beginning of a British comedy sketch?)

[RAM]

I would have to guess that since their starting resources are not affected by their wagon-pullers that they were either bought from a bargain bin or 'liberated' from some outlying farm...

Hmm, that is a thought, maybe if people buy better beasts of burden they should have a faster wagon, maybe that would result in less supplies being used on the trip, or more time before the assorted denizens of the world figure out where you are hiding...

[illiterate]

I assume the wagons and beasts of burden are "thrown in" by the same merchant who gives you a free barrel for every different kind of meat you bought.

"Well, it just wouldn't do to mix the salfin molly meat with the char...  And are you sure you want dog meat, cat meat, and rhesus macaque meat?  Ok, separate barrels for those too..."

Of course, I've also imagined the caravan master spending an afternoon going to that merchant, buying one kind of meat and demanding a barrel to carry it in, and then going around a corner, putting on a fake beard, and buying another, then going around the corner, putting on another fake beard (not taking the first one off, mind you), and getting another kind of meat, and then another fake beard..

[Jurph]

Of course, I've also imagined the caravan master spending an afternoon going to that merchant, buying one kind of meat and demanding a barrel to carry it in, and then going around a corner, putting on a fake beard, and buying another, then going around the corner, putting on another fake beard (not taking the first one off, mind you), and getting another kind of meat, and then another fake beard..

...and at the end of the day, putting all the fake beards in a big pile with a saddle and a rope harness, and trading it for a musk ox.

[Albedo]

Okay - semi-quasi-official request.

IN THIS LATEST VERSION (40.d), HAS ANYONE HAD A BREEDING PAIR OF ANIMALS THAT DRAW THEIR WAGON?  That's 1 male + 1 female of the same species? 
Not from purchasing animals at embark, but the two freebie "beasts of burden" that come with any wagon when you start a new game.

If I don't hear anything to the contrary, I'll update the wiki with this apparent change at the end of the week.

Please - DO NOT RESPOND IN THE NEGATIVE!  No "I didn't get them!" posts - currently it seems that's everyone!  Only if you DID GET A BREEDING PAIR, which would be evidence against this apparent change.

For the community, thanks in advance.

[Untelligent]

Removed pack and wagon puller from all creatures in the game except horses, to facilitate testing. Embarked and got a breeding pair of horses with my wagon.

I guess it just randomly decides the gender of each, rather than alternating as when you purchase them.

[Albedo]

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with a mod'ed experiment.  We have no idea how the code works and what other factors those tags affected.

If yours is the only counter-example, I'll have to discard it.  Black box and all that. 

(For example, did you know that if you add the "hunts vermin" tag to a dog, it will also adopt a master on its own, just like cats?  This is hardly predictable from what little we can observe, but it happens in practice.)

[Naia]

IN THIS LATEST VERSION (40.d), HAS ANYONE HAD A BREEDING PAIR OF ANIMALS THAT DRAW THEIR WAGON?  That's 1 male + 1 female of the same species?

 

 Yes.

 I had a breeding pair of muskoxen whitout buying. Also brought a pair of muskoxen, and gotten another pair on embark, so 2 male + 2 female.
 Seems to me it's random luck.

 Apart from Mayday's gfx, i'm not using any kinds of mods.