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Yup.

65 (12.2%)

Not even close.

391 (73.4%)

Almost . . . but didn't

26 (4.9%)

Maybe managed halfway

51 (9.6%)

Total Members Voted: 530

[cowofdoom78963]

I usualy used them in that run to keep the heat off of me. They constantly died to mumaks and the like. They were...


somewhat useful?

[umiman]

I've always made it a point to polymorph my pets with traps and such. Titans, dragons, etc. all make awesome pets. Besides, it's not too difficult to manage them. I don't use elbereth, so that was never a problem. I never ever had a tinning kit, so that wasn't a problem. I usually end up moving faster than my pets, so it's not a big deal. And I hate knights, so I've never had a pony.

... yeah. What can I say. Different playing styles, different experiences.

[kcwong]

Hey Kc, I have a question. Could I use a wand of striking to knock down the castle's bridge, then use a wand of cold to freeze the moat so I can walk on the water to get inside?

Yes, you can. Just make sure the wand of striking is the first thing you do on the level. Otherwise, monsters inside could wake and zap a wand at the drawbridge... the splinters will kill you instantly if you're lined up with it.

Or if you prefer not fighting the monsters (since you've finished the quest, you don't really need those XP), get rid of the ; in the moat, then get a musical instrument and use the drawbridge to crush them all.

@cowofdoom:
Lich can cast destroy armor... you need magic resistance to counter that.

For magic cloaks, only cloak of magic resistance doesn't self-identify on equip... unless you are already invisible, then add cloak of invisibility to the list.

[JoshuaFH]

Thanks Kc. I didn't know about the splinters.

Umiman: I still refuse to believe that you actually beat the game the first time around without using Elbereth, without running away, and without a tinning kit.

You said you put up some picture or dumplog or something, but I can't remember ever seeing this. Can you post it again?

[cowofdoom78963]

Alright, thats enough proof grey scale is better. I could get a amulet of reflection if I needed it anyway...

I never use elbereth either. I usualy find my wand charges too valuable...

[LegoLord]

I find cloaks of magic resistance to be somewhat easier to find than reflection items, though that's my experience.  Of course, I've only made it to the end of Sokoban twice, dying both times, so that could easily be a part of it.

Basically I think it's best to wait until using a wish on either DMS until after Sokoban.

I would use Elbereth, but by the time I realize it would be useful, it's already too late; I'm too close to dead to try it.

[JoshuaFH]

Alright, thats enough proof grey scale is better. I could get a amulet of reflection if I needed it anyway...

I never use elbereth either. I usualy find my wand charges too valuable...

There's quite a few things that grant magic resistance. Besides the obvious Grey Dragon Scale Mail and Cloak of magic resistance, there's the sceptre of might (lawful), the orb of detection (lawful), the mirror of merlin (lawful), Magicbane (when wielded, neutral), the eye of the aethiopica (neutral), the eyes of the overworld (neutral), and the platinum yendorian express card (neutral).

Before you do the quest, you can wish for two artifacts guaranteed, and even chaotic characters can wish for magicbane. After two artifacts are in existence, there's a an increasing non-trivial chance of further wishes for artifacts to ignore you.

And Legolord's right, I usually wait until after Sokoban to wish for anything. I tend to get bags of holding more than amulets of reflection, which I kind of dislike as I enjoy having reflection, but those bags make keeping your vitals tools close to you easy, and lets you pack more supplies than you would otherwise.

[kcwong]

I'm growing increasingly resentful of having pets.

Try a healer, and you'll be glad you have your pet(s) with you!

If you don't have a leash or a magic whistle, then you have no way of controlling them and getting them to stay close to you except with a tripe ration, and even then they slow you down. Even if you have a leash, they're faster but you're always dragging them, causing them to squeal and whine, waking up monsters you'd have preferred stayed asleep. Slowing down for them wastes even MORE time.

Even a tin whistle will work to draw your pets close. Don't venture too far off away from your pets, for without visual contact they are less likely to move in your direction. When walking into a corridor, let your pet go in first, and use yourself to block the way back, so they must go in the direction you want.

Leash has a max. length of 2 - so if there're two spaces between you and your leashed pet, wait. At that point it can either stay still or move close to you, because it won't yank on it's own neck, so it will move closer to you.

Keep a wand of speed monster handy to zap your pets.

Plus, Getting corpses and tins of specific monsters becomes a REAL challenge when you have a pet, as they're opportunistic little assholes that'll leap at the opportunity to eat things you might have wanted to tin, which makes getting tins of valuable creatures (like giants, nurses, or chameleons) to be a pain in the ass.

Make use of boulders, cursed items, corridors and doors. Most pets can't open doors; and locked doors will keep all of them away (you don't keep pudding as pets, do you?). Pets are very unwilling to step onto cursed items (with no food in that same square), so you can abuse that fact.

Displace your pet and deal the killing blow yourself, and you will have the corpse.

They take forever eating too, finish the damn thing!

Though monsters ignore them when they're eating... that makes eating pets a very good shield.

Then they interfere with Elbereths, because they don't respect it, they'll just walk all over it and degrade it, and possibly pick up the gold coin or something that you dropped on it to keep it active.

Drop a cursed item on the square; use container if possible.

Also, you can't use conflict, because then they'll attack you, and standing on an Elbereth doesn't help, cause they don't respect it!

If you use conflict you have no friends (nor do you need any)... so either stick your tripe ration into a bag and stay away, or leave your pets on the previous level and conflict-kill first before getting the pets down there with you.

In the case of ponies, you have to REALLY go out of your way to keep your pet alive, you have to chat to it to discern how it's hunger is doing, and you have to feed it fruits and vegetables only, both of which can EASILY get to be in short supply.

Horses will eat rations when very hungry (though max HP will be reduced at that stage), and they are indeed hard to feed. You should keep all vegetables and lichen for them. And a war horse is pretty tough.

EVEN THEN, if in the heat of battle you accidentally hit your pet with a wand of lightning (cause it just won't GET OUT OF THE FUCKING WAY!) and you kill it, then you lose like 15 alignment and 1 luck.

I don't use lightning wands to kill... blinding is bad even if you have unihorn. You never know what detail you've missed... like the message of a soldier picking up the cockatrice corpse you just created with the wand. I reserve my lightning wands for emergency E-word only.

and even then, you can't even eat or sacrifice the damn things without being severely punished.

Call all your pets. Then unless a mind flayer got to you, you won't eat them in mistake.

So I've just taken to abandoning the little bastards the moment I can afford it, it's always for the best.

Pets are indispensable to me early on; the BU/C check, combat support and doing Sokoban early (you can't easily handle the monsters there all by yourself). Plus the chance of getting it polymorphed into a dragon and then leaving me its scales... with an enchant armor scroll that's -9 AC. I'll take any colour of dragon.


I've read about a nice pet trick, and I am going to try it in my game. Keep a cursed scroll of genocide and a blessed scroll of taming. On Astral plane, wait for your free turn (from fast or very fast). Reverse genocide purple worms and tame them. Repeat as many times as you like or as your resources last. Use a wand of teleport and send them forth, and enjoy the *Burrrrp!* everywhere as they swallow things whole.

[cowofdoom78963]

Oh yeah pet curse checking. One of the reasons I like having pets around.

[JoshuaFH]

I simply must disagree Kc, on most of those things.

Of course, let me clarify.

Even with a Wand of Speed monster they're too slow. I think I've mentioned it before. Tin whistles are impotent in their effectiveness, and staying in the line of sight of a dumb animal is more work than it's worth.

About the use of the environment to control whether they get the corpse. That sounds good in theory, but would most likely be risky and hard to do in practice.

About the wand of lightning thing, of course I know that Wands of Lightning are too valuable to use in regular combat, I was just using that as an example.

I've never done Sokoban with a pet, ever, they get in the way FAR too much. Let me elaborate on how I do it:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dealing with the monsters is simply a matter of finding a hard gem before you go to Sokoban. All you have to do is, when going to either one of the stairs rooms (which has probably been accumulating monsters) or the zoo, before you unlock the door, engrave Elbereth as many times as you can in front of the door.

Because hard gem engraving is slow and dangerous, I recommend engraving a single Elbereth on the tile right next to the tile that's adjacent to the door, and then dropping a single coin to activate it, so you can engrave without worry.

After engraving Elbereth (I recommend about 10 times, but go for 20 if you want to feel safe), then open the door, and let them funnel into the door towards you. The vast majority won't attack because of the Elbereth, and won't be able to retreat because all their buddies are blocking him, so you are free to attack him to death with impunity. Repeat ad infinitum. With the zoo, you just need to make sure that you can wake up all the monsters somehow, I recommend a tin whistle, but just kicking down the door will produce the necessary noise.

This trick has never failed me in all the times I've done Sokoban. It's very common to fight all the monsters without suffering a single hit. With my Samurai, for example, the Sokoban zoo had a Titan! However, it didn't matter one bit, even when it summoned monsters, it eventually got pushed up to me, and I just stabbed it to death.

About the polymorph trap trick, yeah, that has tons of uses.

About BUC checking, that certainly falls under the "when I can afford it" territory. The moment I find an altar or can get to Minetown easily, the usefulness of my pet has just halved. Altar checking is much better than pet checking. However, if I'm still low on money, pets have the redeeming value of being able to steal things for me. Sometimes very valuable things that are vital to my survival, so they have that, but it's still hard if I don't have a leash or a magic whistle.

That trick with the purple worms sounds awesome.

[kcwong]

Even with a Wand of Speed monster they're too slow. I think I've mentioned it before. Tin whistles are impotent in their effectiveness, and staying in the line of sight of a dumb animal is more work than it's worth.

When I play a class that'd kill himself fighting a grid bug, like a healer or an early tourist, I indeed would keep the pet in line of sight. I'd die if I don't. For other classes I don't wait for my pet. I only go look for my pets when I'm done with the level to bring them to the next.

About the use of the environment to control whether they get the corpse. That sounds good in theory, but would most likely be risky and hard to do in practice.

I don't care about corpses a lot when I can't make them on my own... when I'm able to, I'll be exploring the level on my own and I'll have my corpses.

About the wand of lightning thing, of course I know that Wands of Lightning are too valuable to use in regular combat, I was just using that as an example.

I don't consider /oLightning valuable at all actually... they are just emergency backups when I'm out of fire and digging. Blinding oneself is just too dangerous.

I've never done Sokoban with a pet, ever, they get in the way FAR too much. <snip>E-word with hard gems</snip>

It's often not the zoo that's the most dangerous... you can often find dogs/cats/horses in the final zoo, so you just throw one fortune cookie at it and it'll buy you a lot of breathing room. It's those giant mimics in some of those variants. A large dog/cat will handle it easily, while a weaker class could get gripped and mauled to death in no-time. Also elves can be generated in Sokoban, and they carry ranged weapons, scrolls and wands.

Because hard gem engraving is slow and dangerous, I recommend engraving a single Elbereth on the tile right next to the tile that's adjacent to the door, and then dropping a single coin to activate it, so you can engrave without worry.

I never use slow engraving... it just takes too much time (you can't stop even when hit) and too dangerous. Sometimes your first character erodes before you're done with the first E-word. If I need breathing room I just finger it 10 times in a row.

About BUC checking, that certainly falls under the "when I can afford it" territory. The moment I find an altar or can get to Minetown easily, the usefulness of my pet has just halved. Altar checking is much better than pet checking. However, if I'm still low on money, pets have the redeeming value of being able to steal things for me. Sometimes very valuable things that are vital to my survival, so they have that, but it's still hard if I don't have a leash or a magic whistle.

But there are times when the RNG is a real bitch and won't give you any altars outside of mine town. Taking trips back there is just too time (and thus food) consuming.

That trick with the purple worms sounds awesome.

Yup, it is. I found it on rgrn.

[umiman]

What can I say? Wizards are awesome.

Concerning the tinning kit: I really never saw the need for carrying food around. I managed to gain access to that fortress full of gold, which was protected by a shitload of guards. All those guys carry C and K rations, so food was never really a concern past that point (though it took a LOOOOOONG time to haul all that shit to the stash). I also had an icebox at my stash and several rings of slow digestion. I needed to pray for food quite a few times as well.

Nothing else really needed the use of a tinning kit. I had plenty of lizards to deal with stoning. Several bags of holding to haul all that stuff. It was easy enough to get all the vital intrinsics, so I didn't need those. Wizards can easily become hungry enough to rapidly consume giant corpses just by casting spells repeatedly and I never met that many giants anyway.

It wouldn't have mattered though. I never found a tinning kit.

[kcwong]

Tinning is for the good corpses... for stat increase and instrinsics. For food it is sub-par, because tinned food has reduced nutrition, plus it takes extra time to open it if not blessed. So if you use a tinned lizard to cure stoning... you'll be a !!statue holding a tin can!!.

I agree tinning kit is by no means necessary. My valkyrie hasn't found one, and she has 18/46 St (and has gauntlets of power), 18 in Dx, Co, In, Wi and 14 Ch, plus all the beneficial intrinsics you can get by eating, and I wasn't even trying to max them.

[LegoLord]

Yeah, tinning is useful for saving a leprechaun corpse for later when you can get your hands on teleport control and keeping corpses fresh if you have food problems, but otherwise isn't so great.

I had a wizard last night that started out with some good items.  Ring of slow digestion and conflict were both starting items.  Enchant armor (or maybe weapon) was a starting scroll.  Ran into a jewelry shop later and found a ring of what was either polymorph, polymorph control, or teleport control.  I bought it and tested it; it wasn't polymorph.  By that point I had somehow lost my pet.  Ran into some killer bees that brought my health down, but I used a flint stone (yabadaba-doo!) to get a few good Elbereths down for a healing spot.  Unfortunately, I got impatient and held down the wait key.  A beetle came and finished me off after my last Elbereth wore off.

[ToonyMan]

What can I say? Wizards are awesome.

Concerning the tinning kit: I really never saw the need for carrying food around. I managed to gain access to that fortress full of gold, which was protected by a shitload of guards. All those guys carry C and K rations, so food was never really a concern past that point (though it took a LOOOOOONG time to haul all that shit to the stash). I also had an icebox at my stash and several rings of slow digestion. I needed to pray for food quite a few times as well.

Nothing else really needed the use of a tinning kit. I had plenty of lizards to deal with stoning. Several bags of holding to haul all that stuff. It was easy enough to get all the vital intrinsics, so I didn't need those. Wizards can easily become hungry enough to rapidly consume giant corpses just by casting spells repeatedly and I never met that many giants anyway.

It wouldn't have mattered though. I never found a tinning kit.

How do you get so good?  Many deaths of death?  There has to be some cook book way to do it.