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Author Topic: How to defend a flat embark point?  (Read 3500 times)

Albedo

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Re: How to defend a flat embark point?
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2009, 12:24:28 am »

Ah - got it!

Yeah, that's very similar to what I'd had in mind for my permanent entrance, only using the reverse battlements configuration (see wiki), putting a battery of ballistae where you have the blue line, and the water trap coming out of the sides.

I've got used to making most any channel with a ramp, for easy exit for stupid dorfs who insist on digging/walling/constructing themselves into a dead end.  Not every channel can (depending what you expect to fall in there), but still.
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Shoku

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Re: How to defend a flat embark point?
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2009, 08:02:49 am »

The stairs approach is really better for when you're making numerous z levels of open space and wanna do something like engrave each level first. They're willing to channel while standing on the stairs below the particular tile so they never get stuck.

I had considered a reverse battlements set up back when I was first visualizing entrances but back then I wanted to at least see what shooting forwards was good for first.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 08:20:50 am by Shoku »
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Spazz

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Re: How to defend a flat embark point?
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2009, 12:42:49 pm »

You could do what I did in a flat map, it's a little bit intensive, but sounds as if it might require most of the digging in sand, which is easy.  This doesn't have to be a very large thing by any means.

It's pretty much an "OH S#@!" tactic, but you can create a small section of ceiling in your entryway supported only with a support hooked up to a pressure plate/lever.  (I know, this requires stone for the support and mechanisms, but not much.  At least for me, I was able to engineer it to seal my entryway when zombie elephants were incoming...  as long as collapsing ceiling still leaves some wall tiles, you should be safe.

If you're not completely averse to using stone and aren't facing amphibious or undead threats, you could create a "U-bend" tunnel, z-level wise with your entrance by the brook and going under.  With either trap or lever activating a hatch/floodgate to let the brook flood the bottom of the U, and perhaps sealing the doors on either side, for added entrapment of any victims.  Though, if you do this, as with any waterwork, be sure you have a drainage mechanism available (Perhaps even a pit under a hatch or cistern behind a floodgate) to get rid of the water after it gets rid of your unwanted guests.

Stoneless strategies, if you're in a bind, could be as simple as cutting a channel in your entry tunnel before a bend in case of emergency, effectively sealing you in, but keeping any nonflying enemy at bay.  At later leisure you could set grates/bars/bridge with control mechanisms over the channel(s), letting you have access outside again.  If you do that, be sure to have farm plots inside.  From personal experience, you do NOT want to be for all intents and purposes sieged behind such a defensive measure without a working farm program already up and running.  (I was asking for it, frigging haunted jungle, built right by the magma tube, what's worse than fire imps?  zombie/skeleton fire imps)

Well I've rambled enough, none of these solutions are elegant, but they've all proven via trial by fire.  I've got more improvisations I could share, but I'm afraid I'll babble on into the 22nd century.
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Shoku

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Re: How to defend a flat embark point?
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2009, 12:54:42 pm »

Does anybody know how overhangs affect shooting?

I mean do you need to be right next to a pit to shoot down into it or is there some actual geometry where you need a straight line to the target?
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dornbeast

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Re: How to defend a flat embark point?
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2009, 02:30:13 pm »

Does anybody know how overhangs affect shooting?

I mean do you need to be right next to a pit to shoot down into it or is there some actual geometry where you need a straight line to the target?

From my experience of having goblins fire down on a fort, there's no need to be right on the edge if the pit is shallow enough.
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Leafsnail

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Re: How to defend a flat embark point?
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2009, 03:48:24 pm »

I only have a tiny little mountain in a corner of my map, so I decided to dig down and just hollow out an area, then make double doors into my real fort, meaning that goblins would claim a little area in a siege.  This does have the disadvantage that when ordered to stay "inside" some dwarfs will stand outside your doors and get pwned, but that's kindof inevitable.  Also, I've set it up so this outside area can become flooded by the nearby brook, and so I can seal off the stairs too (plus the area's full of traps).  So, hopefully this system works, although due to the massive disruption it would cause I haven't tested it yet.
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Albedo

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Re: How to defend a flat embark point?
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2009, 07:00:39 pm »

Does anybody know how overhangs affect shooting?

I mean do you need to be right next to a pit to shoot down into it or is there some actual geometry where you need a straight line to the target?

I've read some posts that imply it's about 1:1, that a target needs to be back 1 tile for every tile of elevation diff.  No iron clad "I've tested this extensively" testimony, tho'.

It would not be hard to test - set up some elevated archers and force a path for targets that runs at the very base of the wall, 1 tile wide - then stagger it out 1 tile more in stages.  Where you first see blood... that's it.  ;)

(I won't be at a stage to do that for some time, but I'll put it on my "to do" list, right up there with testing the fear-distance for siege engine opertors.)  8)
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Shoku

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Re: How to defend a flat embark point?
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2009, 04:18:34 pm »

I was thinking leaving a row of floors in front of the fortifications in reverse battlements so enemies would have to be further away from the fortifications when they could turn around to shoot at them. It would make the effective killzone for everything else smaller though.
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Luraien

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Re: How to defend a flat embark point?
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2009, 09:31:13 am »

I don't know if anyones mentioned this flatland defense method already but i basically channeled a huge square out and surrounded it with stairs going all the way down. I built a wall around it and another wall on the outside, and just laced the long walk with traps. I've got a quick exit for my dwarves but it's usually just locked. No military really involved as they all get trapped quite fast. The surviving ones end up running away or running into the barracks which is right outside the entry.
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