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[Kittenykat]

A better idea for soldiers to carry drink around, rather than waterskins (with all their inherent alcohol-denying issues), how about replacing them with, or adding in, another option: Wine Gourds (alternately 'Aleskins'). This way soldiers can carry precious, precious beer with them while they're on duty and don't suffer deprivation effects like the somewhat buggy waterskins force them to.

[mickel]

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to fill a water-skin with beer. Well, okay, I do see why you shouldn't be able to, but there's nothing to physically prevent you from substituting one liquid for another.

[Eagle of Fire]

Seeing that soldiers sometime take almost up to a month to fill a waterskin... Are you sure that you want your dwarves to do the same?  

[Gakidou]

quote:Originally posted by Eagle of Fire:
<STRONG>Seeing that soldiers sometime take almost up to a month to fill a waterskin... Are you sure that you want your dwarves to do the same?   </STRONG>

Everyone knows that alcohol makes Dwarves work faster, so maybe it will only take a soldier a week to fill his flask with wiskey?

[Tamren]

Soldiers in the Napoleon era drank a lot before battle. Of course that was a time where soldiers would form up into orderly lines and shoot each other in the face.

Dwarf sentries keeping an eye out for thieves would not do thier job very well drunk  . Of course, that is assuming Toady adds in intoxication/sobriety. Which I ecourage him to do because of all the hilarity that would ensue  .

So yeah, booze in waterskins, great idea. The mechanics for filling them should be much improved however, and we should have a way of stockpiling filled waterskins. How about something like this:

Waterskin rack:
Basically this is just a cabinet with no doors and lots of shelves. You put waterskins in them and designate a source of liquid. If this source is a well or other form of water supply then dwarves assigned to hauling will take empty skins by the armful and fill them up. If the source is booze they will take the skins to the nearest liquir stockpile instead and fill them up there (possibly mulling or diluting them).

Once they return them to the rack then any soldier on duty with an empty waterskin will go to the nearest rack and swap out his empty skin. If there are no racks, or there is a water source closer he will just fill the skin by hand.

Make sense? the idea is a bit rough but we really do need something like it. Perhaps we could also add the delivery of waterskins to soldiers on duty as a hauling task.

[Capntastic]

This is what flasks are for- they also make great molotov cocktails!

[Turgid Bolk]

I imagined that dwarves weren't so much alcoholics as their bodies' biology required alcohol. Meaning they don't get "drunk" like a human gets drunk, they are truly "alcohol dependant," it acts something like electrolytes for them.

Anyway, why not just make filling waterskins/flasks faster? I don't see why it should take more than a day to fill one, they can only hold what, a gallon (~4 liters) at the most? I just assumed waterskins were buggy. The flask cabinet is a really good idea, though! It would be handy to get your soldiers out the door quickly, along with fixed armor stands and weapon racks.

[Tamren]

Come to think of it, why not make it so that every dwarf in your fortress can carry a waterskin? It would make sense and every time they get thirsty they would not have to walk all the way back to the booze stockpile?

4 liters? maybe not that much. Water weighs a lot and running around with too much weight is not good for stamina. 1 or 2 liters would work well. Filling a waterskin should only take a few seconds. One way of doing it is blowing up the skin like a balloon and holding it under water. The air bubbles up and the water flows in to replace it.

We do not have plumbers in the fortress but what if mechanics could build spigots? This would make filling skins from a well super easy. It would also let us build kegs!  Compared to barrels a keg is just a dispenser. Dwarves do not need cups at the moment but it would make sense if they all grabbed a mug at the dining hall and took the drink with them to the table.

Speaking of cups. Since dwarves do not use them, it would mean that they would either use cupped hands or stick thier heads INTO the liquid in order to drink it. Neither option is very good and wastes a lot of liquid. It would make more sense if dwarves used tankards at the dining hall for big drinks, and carry around a waterskin or a small cup. They could do without it, but if you make and give them one it would mak them happier (and more productive).

[Capntastic]

There's plans in the dev notes for realistic use of flasks and eating utensils- it's just a matter of Toady finding the right time to put 'em in.

In the grand scheme of things, table manners isn't so important to the game right now (Though details like that are one of the game's best virtues.)

[Tamren]

It would be nice if mealtime could be set. But then it would get all wonky because dwarves sleep at different times, know what i mean?

But it would be cool if you could have something like "bar night" where everyone would come to the dining hall, grab a mug and get drunk. Then start doing drunk things  :p. Pretty much a more complicated party.

[mickel]

Dwarves seem to eat, sleep and drink at fairly random times. They have no circadian rythm?

You'd get a lot better sense of the passage of time if they did these at set times, but then maybe dwarves just don't work that way. They live underground all the time anyway.

[Savok]

quote:Originally posted by mickel:
<STRONG>Dwarves seem to eat, sleep and drink at fairly random times. They have no circadian rythm?

You'd get a lot better sense of the passage of time if they did these at set times, but then maybe dwarves just don't work that way. They live underground all the time anyway.</STRONG>

...and the goblins slaughter everyone in their sleep.

[Grek]

quote:Originally posted by mickel:
<STRONG>Dwarves seem to eat, sleep and drink at fairly random times. They have no circadian rythm?</STRONG>

They eat drink and sleep based on timer which is effected by toughness and starts when they arive at the fort, making it all seem random.

[mickel]

quote:Originally posted by Savok:
<STRONG>
...and the goblins slaughter everyone in their sleep.</STRONG>

That's what you have guards for. If the military had some discipline they'd be a lot more useful. Guards on post that actually stay on post, who take turns to eat, sleep and rest. Guards on patrol. Alarms. That sort of thing.

I wouldn't have to trap every walkable square in my fortress if I could count on
the military to do their job.

EDIT: Of course, I'd still trap every walkable square, but I wouldn't have to...

[ September 05, 2007: Message edited by: mickel ]