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Author Topic: Balancing up the other races, how?  (Read 4850 times)

Eagleon

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2007, 07:48:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Tamren:
<STRONG>
...
In fact the only question we had at that point was where the clay would come from? Obviously you would not be able to find it everywhere.
...</STRONG>

Usually you can find it in river cuts, where the less porous material has been saturated and swept away, or it can be mined. It's pretty common, actually, just most people never recognize it.

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mickel

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2007, 07:32:00 am »

Yea, I imagine you'd gather it from the workshop itself, rather like sand in the glass furnace.
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Bricktop

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2007, 10:46:00 am »

Just an idea, maybe the Elves could be like Aztecs but without the sacrifice? (Admittedly, removing the sacrifice elements from the Aztecs doesn't leave very much...)
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Nil Eyeglazed

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2007, 11:26:00 am »

I was starting to get some ideas about interesting elves.

With dwarves, it's your dwarves that level up, that you want to protect.  It makes perfect sense that dwarves are happy trading off stone-- stone is useless unless you do something with it.

We've all been assuming that elves would work pretty similarly to dwarves.  But what if your elves were more like trained animals?  What if it was your immobile trees that skilled up?  A single tree might generate tasks, like a workshop does, and level itself up.  Your elves would serve as a defense and hauling force, delivering meals and materials to trees, and defending them against evildoers (such as wood cutters).  In other words-- all of your laborers had all tasks enabled, but couldn't skill up, while all of your workshops could skill up instead, and could be used for any sort of task.  Wouldn't the elven mentality make a lot more sense after playing a few years of that game?

Let's look at how this would play out in a couple of fields:

Food gathering: I can't imagine elven farmers.  One tree might drop fruit that could be scattered, much like planting a plot (probably larger, and less effective per square).  A tree sent to "Fruiting" would eventually develop better and better fruit, leading to higher yield.  Idle elves would gather plants from the fertilized squares.

Weaponry and clothing: One tree might periodically shed wood ideal for bowmaking.  An idle elf might come and pick up the wood and fashion it into a bow.  As more bows were made, the tree could become a legendary bowtree (while still only a dabbling fruit-tree).  Since all elves were also military, elves would occasionally pick up a bow the same way dwarves go shopping.

Living spaces: Immobile beds would actually grow out of a tree assigned to "bedmaking" or whatever.  One tree could eventually become a legendary barracks.  (I don't see elves as being too particular about ownership.)

Trees would of course need food and water to prosper, the same way injured dwarves need it to survive.  Trees would get moods, and melancholy.  Trees would welcome new saplings to their fold-- if there were resources enough for all.

I think that this alternate way of looking at elven civilizations would resolve a lot of problems.  Who needs balance when elven civilizations play under completely different rules?  Who needs steel or adamantium?

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Fishersalwaysdie

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2007, 01:09:00 pm »

And you need druids to command the sla... elves.
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Bricktop

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2007, 01:21:00 pm »

I like the diea of the tree's leveling up while the Elves don't. I think organising the elves into military squads and stuff should be left the way it is in Dwarf Mode because otherwise it would be almost impossible to put up a decent defence.

Like you say, this would also make the elven mentality make much more sence as well as providing an interestingly new way of dealing with problems.

The only possible problem with this would be that there wouldn't be anywhere near as much depth as there is in Dwarf mode. After all, in dwarf mode a lot of the fun is in getting large and complex fortresses. A possible idea for making this a bit deeper would be if you could also have other plants to perform some roles. While your tree's will still be the main things of importance, things like Nettle and Bramble patches would be the equivalent of traps.

Oh, and I've just realised... this would make a lot of sence in the DF world so far because if I remember rightly tree's in Elf Settlements have names...

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Fishersalwaysdie

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2007, 01:33:00 pm »

Maybe elves should level up too.
In adventure mode they do.
Chim chim charoo.

There should be something to gain from bitching to humans and dwarves for chopping down the trees.
So that I have an excuse for doing it.

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Tamren

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2007, 03:13:00 pm »

Excelent idea. But both elves and thier trees should level up.

There would be a sperarate list of skills that can only be taught to elven trees. Stuff like woodforming and maybe attacking trespassers.

The elves would get the actual tree teaching skill, some form of druidism i guess? They would also get the other various skills like armour use and growing.

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Bricktop

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2007, 05:43:00 am »

Yeah, Elves could level up in fighting and things... but just as long as they never get quite as valuable as the tree's...
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Spelguru

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2007, 06:34:00 am »

From the old armok notes:
Entity Character:  When the game is coming up with laws, members, culture, and foci for an entity, it will be given a number of desired characteristics. Perhaps the game is told, "I want a hunter gatherer society". Then it will make one. There can be further restrictions: if the game is fed, "I want an EVIL hunter gatherer society", it will superimpose some laws, foci, and cultural practices that we real people consider untoward. This fits in to the genre-atmosphere-plot system (under atmosphere). That is, every generator has to respect certain atmospheric settings. Sometimes these are global, and other times they are local.

You know, I can see things there, hunter gatherer for example implies how they get food n stuff, and then evil yadda yadda I'm sure you can read it. But if you look at that entire page, PAGE, elves are only mentioned once, as are races. From what I understand the civs will not be based by race as much as goals and customs. Who knows, maybe in the future when the game is fleshed out more we'll have elves that give the dwarves/humans mandates such as "You *WILL* cut down 150 trees this year, or we'll invade! And you know you don't want to face our evil legions with flails!"

It would be a nice break from the hippie tree-lovers  :)

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mickel

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2007, 07:52:00 am »

Trees could be to elves what the nobles are to dwarves. Except they're immobile.  :)

They're the ones that enable the culture to do various things, they enable particular jobs, techniques etc. and they also generate demands.

Heck, I love it! It's freaking brilliant!

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Bricktop

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2007, 08:41:00 am »

So they would be Noble's AND Workshops? Sounds good.
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Fishersalwaysdie

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2007, 10:34:00 am »

And soon after Toady made the elves absolutely different ignoring this thread completely.
But no one cared because he did it totally kick-ass anyway.
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Black Hound

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2007, 06:49:00 pm »

quote:
You're absolutely right. Or maybe we should just let them live in cities called "Rivendell" or the like. And have names like Elrond. Because as we all know, originality is like acid to having fun. I know I'm always up for the same tired old crap again and again.

Chiming in to say that the barbarian elf idea has been done too - anyone read A Song of Ice and Fire, where the primitive but nature-sensitive 'children of the forest' were wiped out by humans with their metal weapons and tools?

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Capntastic

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Re: Balancing up the other races, how?
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2007, 10:46:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Fishersalwaysdie:
<STRONG>And soon after Toady made the elves absolutely different ignoring this thread completely.
But no one cared because he did it totally kick-ass anyway.</STRONG>

He doesn't ignore it!   He just does stuff better than we could dream anyways.

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