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[Airpi]

Hello.

I've looked over the development log and searched around the forum, but let me know if you've heard this one before.

I was thinking about artifacts the other day, and I noticed that in terms of decorations, there isn't much of a difference between an artifact and some set of plate armor that's been around the jeweler's for a while. I think they deserve better than this, especially if you look at them in terms of "Dwarven Magic" as is often suggested. The other problem I see with Artifacts right now is a lack of differentiation between Artifacts created by the different Moods. A bone gauntlet created by a dwarf in a Fell mood could be identical to a gauntlet made by a dwarf in a Fey mood, or even just one that's been decorated mundanely. So, as a means of differentiating Artifacts and adding to their fantastic nature, I propose that there be a set of Artifact-only "decorations" that would replace the free decoration each artifact gets. Each sort of mood could draw from a unique list of these decorations that fits with the theme of that mood, and the object created.

For example, just as dwarf in a Fey mood is loud and shouty, the specific decorations associated with Fey Moods would be just as obvious. Weapons might have blades that shine with their own light, puzzleboxes that move by themselves but never solve, that sort of thing.

Secretive moods could have decorations that are more subtle, such as being engraved with mysterious runes, or feeling lighter than they appear to be.

Fell and Macabre moods should definitely have "decorations" that relate to the violent way they were crafted. They could seep blood, or be heard to scream or cry quietly.

Possessions might overlap a bit with Fell moods (if they are demonic possessions, I don't know), or they could have vaguely Lovecraftian "unreal" features. Strange geometry, angles that don't add up right, Escher-(or maybe Giger-)esque engravings.

The problem here is coming up with unique features for the more "mundane" sort of artifacts. Fantasy novels have tons of cliches to abuse regarding magical weapons and that sort of thing, but what sort of decoration does a Possessed dwarf put on a floodgate? Coming up with that puts this pretty soundly in the Bloat category, but if/when it was done, I think this would make Artifacts much more memorable and interesting.

Thank you.

[Jakkarra]

i really like this idea, and can see how you came to this conclusion, im just sad that YOU did before me 

anyway, back to the topic, this could be incredibly awesome, but it may require a lot of thought and a LOT of writing to make each artifact unique, for example;

you could very well have TWO artifact obsidian swords, with a jewel that burns with the very fire of hell,
unless Toadyonepbuh makes a gread deal of different descriptors, unless it can have more than one awesome feature, which is more than likely,

mmmkay?

love, jakkarra

[Warlord255]

Runes would be a good start for an artifact-only decoration, but bordering magic is a sketchy subject.

[sonerohi]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I like the explanation given in The Halfling's Gem, by R.A. Salvatore. Bruenor, a dwarven king in the book, is siezed by the idea of the perfect hammer. He knew that the day would come eventually, and that all dwarves have it. He's got materials that he set aside especially, and when the time is right for it (in this case a full moon on some sort of solstice I believe) he went to the forge to make it. It wasn't a magic per say, it was just a sudden intuition as to how to work the metal in just the right way.

Also, he lost his desire to make weapons and such after that. Which is something we need. After a dwarf acheives perfection, what use is their anymore to strive to excel? That's the peak for them... There's nothing out there left for them to do.

I do like your idea though. It really should be something special. Maybe a sword that makes the sound of drums being beaten when it's swung, instead of the usual fwoosh sound?

[LordDemon]

Runes sound nice, maybe
"it glows [colour] light" (alternatively "It glows faint ... At dark").

Perhaps some form of Mental effect decorations?

"Upon the item is embedded rubies, that seem endlessly deep."
"light reflecting on the [metal] ornaments has a [sinnister/playful/sneaky] feel, almost as if it was alive."
"The object causes a feeling of [fear/suspicion/joy/anger/whatever] to those near it." (This would be cool to actually work in game too, but for now I'm just listing it as description).

I think artifacts would benefit from this greatly. There can only be so many artifacts with spikes of pigtail, cave spider silk, cat leather and limestone.

I would (since we are on the subject) like to see the current decorations divided into groups and defined better. Spikes of [cloth]/[leather]?  Encrusted in [wood]? Image of

• in [bone]?

I would rather have it so the material have their dedicated description labels. Cloth and leather would be great for pictures and banding, Gems fit with the encrusted, and metals make great spikes for example.
Also, for gems a "Embedded"  would be nice, or maybe for large gems. "This is a golden ring. It has superior quality large sapphire embedded on it."

I would also like to see the decorations move fitting for objects. Spikes are mostly for weapons, some certain furniture, and maybe jewelery though I don't think dwarfs are goths.  Amulets and pieces of cloth/armor would be perfect for pictures.

[Pilsu]

How do you justify an ordinary guy making a sword that burns though?

[Enzo]

ordinary dwarf.

[Syff]

How do you justify an ordinary guy making a sword that burns though?

How do you justify anyone making a sword that burns?

Magic is magic.

[Silverionmox]

unless Toadyonepbuh makes a gread deal of different descriptors, unless it can have more than one awesome feature, which is more than likely,

Toady just needs to put it in a raw with ten descriptions to set the mood, the community will come up with another thousand.

[Neonivek]

How do you justify an ordinary guy making a sword that burns though?

It is the perfection of the moods that Dwarves who fall under them can take advantage of how the universe functions and craft accordingly. An insight so far outside the leagues of mortal men that it cannot be replicated.

To put it simply: The Sword that burns works because it is in accordance to how the laws of physics function in the Dwarf Fortress universe, it is just obscure.

[Aquillion]

bordering magic is a sketchy subject.

No it isn't.  Check out Core80, "ARTIFACT MAGIC".

Artifacts have always been planned to be important magical items with game-altering powers.  The only reason they aren't, yet, it because that's waiting on the magic arc.

And, with that said, probably most other artifact improvements (like those suggested in this thread) should wait until artifacts get their magic powers, too.  After all, their appearance should reflect their powers, generally; the two things ought to be worked on together.

[Neonivek]

it because that's waiting on the magic arc

No we will have magical artifacts before the Magic Arc. Once the Magic Arc is out however Artifacts will also function using the magic system.

The only reason they arn't is because it would require a whole system built around artifacts themselves (Artifact Arc... Also it would have to be after the Carrivan Arc). Given that many people complain about the economy, combat, and many others game elements not functioning and few people complain that Artifacts arn't magical enough... I can't see it being very high on his priority list.

That and Artifacts need to be built ontop of other game systems. Afterall what is the point of having magical world changing artifacts if no one gives them any attention? They would also likely require balance with other game system as well pushing it further back.

Ohh Artifact Arc... your so far away.

[Jakkarra]

unless Toadyonepbuh makes a gread deal of different descriptors, unless it can have more than one awesome feature, which is more than likely,

Toady just needs to put it in a raw with ten descriptions to set the mood, the community will come up with another thousand.

good point, i myself can think of a lot of nice descriptions that i could add.....

however, i DID think this is what Toadyonepbuh would do, but i thought it  ay have been a little complicated, having each thing tied to a particular variable... but i now see how it could be done.

Love, jakkarra

[Footkerchief]

In case anyone wants to know what came up in this kind of thread before:

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=30549.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=5834.0

[Neonivek]

Goodness I probably should get to expanding that list even further! 

Though I don't think anyone really wants an expanded list. I might as well I guess...