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[G-Flex]

It doesn't even have a statement of beliefs, it seems. It just says "We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods" which is a hell of a lot less dogmatic and complicated, by far, than any other non-profit org I've ever seen, and those normally aren't religions either.

They're just a group of people with a common interest: Living as an atheist in American society. People with similar interests get together and form organizations to represent those interests. It doesn't make them a religion.

[Dasleah]

Evidence: A is A.

Theory: A is always A.

aw yeah like me sum of dat

[Sergius]

Like Godwin's law, is there some law that says how long it takes for some anti-science/anti-atheist fellow to bring up the assertion that "science is just theories which are just guesses and atheism is a religion because people believe stuff"?

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

ok, so , I deserved all that after bumfungling "tantrum spiral".



Dont read this,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

but, it appears to me that the word "religion" really seems to push a panic button in some people.  my own opinion to this is :  a knee-jerk reaction against anything that might resemble or bring to mind western religion or culture or upbringing, either because a:  they are not from the western world or b: they are from the western world and are being driven by some psychology that makes a person react strongly against their own culture.  But I do submit that there could be more reasons I havent presented.

I state this because of the strange uproar over the words religion and Athiest.  IMHO, the core of the rancor purely stems from peoples acceptance or problem with Christianity, the dominant socio-political ideology of the west.  The word religion I believe calls this forward in some people.  Certainly the word "athiest" does as well, as witnessed through comments from others as well as myself in this thread.

I think the original topic is a religion.  Not all athiests in general, but the "Atheist Community of Austin".  But I will submit this; what consitutes a religion, cult, organization, political party, club, clan, association, etc is purely defined by the eye of the beholder.  The current case in being viewed through the lense of Austinites, Texas, Americans, North Americans & the western world (yes, many people on this forum are not from said area, but i do not think they are actively participating in this specific discussion------yet).  The dominant culture being christian-centric and the fact that the "Athiest Community of Austin" is a gathering of people with the sole purpose of countering/disbelieving/arguing against the dominant socio-political-religous culture would seemingly consitutes them as a religion.  They have no physical reason for existence other than to be a counterpoint to the dominant ideology.  Groups that do so have been called many things by the dominant culture they are a part of over the history of man:  religion, criminals, cult, rebellion, non-conformists, agitators, traitors, blasphemors, heathens, anarchists, etc............  That all being said combined with the human language need for labeling/defining things, I decide to call them a religion.

Also, concerning the SPCA:  The SPCA and the "Athiest Community of Austin" are the same?  HUH?!

is there some law that states how long it takes for someone to post anecdotal gibberish in an attempt to belittle something they dont understand and therefore cant discuss?  Brings to mind a song by Steve Martin where one of the lines is, "Criticize things you dont know about".

'cuz i really no longer care.
youknowhat..........im sick of this.
screw it.
You all are right, i am wrong.
I should know better than to post an opinion in a thread like this.
I forgot who was running the Asylum.  (ok, yeah, thats was still a jab back-atchya, leave me some dignity).

g'nite,
Happy DF! 

[Ampersand]

is there some law that states how long it takes for someone to post anecdotal gibberish in an attempt to belittle something they dont understand and therefore cant discuss?  Brings to mind a song by Steve Martin where one of the lines is, "Criticize things you dont know about".

I lol'd

[Sergius]

Of course. The Atheist Community of Austin is a religion. So is the <your city here> Homeowner's Association, the National Rifle Association, the Electronic Frontier Foundation is a religion. The Society for Creative Anachronism is a religion. The Bay 12 Games Forum is a religion.

All a religion means is that someone asks for people to gather around some common interest. Gotcha.

[viskaslietuvai]

Of course. The Atheist Community of Austin is a religion. So is the <your city here> Homeowner's Association, the National Rifle Association, the Electronic Frontier Foundation is a religion. The Society for Creative Anachronism is a religion. The Bay 12 Games Forum is a religion.

All a religion means is that someone asks for people to gather around some common interest. Gotcha.

No. No it doesn't.



If that isn't explicit enough

–noun
1.    a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.    a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.    the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.    the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.    the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.    something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.    religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8.    Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.

From dictionary.com.
The closest definition to the one you hold is 6. But yours appears to be kinda casual. "A book club is a religion" is the image I get, perhaps unfairly. This definition (6) uses the word devotion, one that I would not ascribe the majority of the members of the organizations you mention. There are some though that believe "From my cold dead hands!" are words to live by. And by your definition, I concede, you are right that those folks appear to be members of a religion, though not in the manner that I think most of the people in this forum are using the word "religion." Multiple definitions does not mean that those definitions are interchangeable. This is why double entendres are funny. Because the person did not mean to say that they were putting their testicles in the mouth of congress, but rather that they were sending teabags to congress to express their anger.

[¿]

Of course. The Atheist Community of Austin is a religion. So is the <your city here> Homeowner's Association, the National Rifle Association, the Electronic Frontier Foundation is a religion. The Society for Creative Anachronism is a religion. The Bay 12 Games Forum is a religion.

All a religion means is that someone asks for people to gather around some common interest. Gotcha.

No. No it doesn't.



If that isn't explicit enough

–noun
1.    a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.    a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.    the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.    the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.    the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.    something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.    religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8.    Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.

From dictionary.com.
The closest definition to the one you hold is 6. But yours appears to be kinda casual. "A book club is a religion" is the image I get, perhaps unfairly. This definition (6) uses the word devotion, one that I would not ascribe the majority of the members of the organizations you mention. There are some though that believe "From my cold dead hands!" are words to live by. And by your definition, I concede, you are right that those folks appear to be members of a religion, though not in the manner that I think most of the people in this forum are using the word "religion." Multiple definitions does not mean that those definitions are interchangeable. This is why double entendres are funny. Because the person did not mean to say that they were putting their testicles in the mouth of congress, but rather that they were sending teabags to congress to express their anger.

Beat me to it. Atheism fits more or less in most of the definitions.

–noun
1.    a set of beliefs concerning the cause (Chance), nature (Of Chance), and purpose (None) of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies (Which there isn't), usually involving devotional and ritual observances (Avoidance thereof or you might consider their organized resistance to other religions to count), and often containing a moral code (There isn't an absolute moral code is the moral code) governing the conduct of human affairs.

2.    a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects (See #1)

3.    the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices (Like I said, when they become organized around a particular set of beliefs, it's a religion.)

6.    something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience (See this a lot in atheists, arguing their points in ethics.)

Atheism is a religion.

[Cheeetar]

What you seem to be saying is strange.

cabbage noun 1 any of several varieties of a leafy biennial plant(Apples are distinctly not a leafy biennial plant, and therefore a leafy biennial plant), grown for its compact head of green (apples are green) , white or red edible leaves(apples are edible).

Apples = cabbage.


Edit: Being an atheist does NOT say you believe anything about the creation of a universe. It does not mean you believe evolution, Big Bang Theory, etc. It means you lack belief in god.

[G-Flex]

If not believing in one particular thing is a religion in itself, I guess not only is atheism a religion, but so is, well, whatever you'd call a lack of belief in invisible pink moon unicorns. I guess we're all part of the same religion, then, given that probably none of us believe in those, so we can stop this debate.

[edit]

Okay, wait, I just saw ¿'s post and, unfortunately, am too taken in by the troll-bait:

Beat me to it. Atheism fits more or less in most of the definitions.

–noun
1.    a set of beliefs concerning the cause (Chance), nature (Of Chance), and purpose (None) of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies (Which there isn't), usually involving devotional and ritual observances (Avoidance thereof or you might consider their organized resistance to other religions to count), and often containing a moral code (There isn't an absolute moral code is the moral code) governing the conduct of human affairs.

Except "atheism" implies nothing about the actual cause, nature, or purpose of the universe, doesn't even say anything about supernatural entities or concepts which AREN'T gods (see: atheistic buddhism), doesn't have ritual observances at all (what the fuck makes you think that there are rituals related to not having a belief in some thing? do you have ritual observances related to your lack of belief in three-legged sloths?), and doesn't imply that there is or isn't an absolute (or any other) moral code in and of itself.

2.    a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects (See #1)

It's more like a singular lack of belief, and if you take that to mean it's a religion, then sure, we ALL belong to an infinite number of religions, since we all share a lack of belief in an infinite number of things.

3.    the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices (Like I said, when they become organized around a particular set of beliefs, it's a religion.)

Again. Being an atheist says nothing about the actual practices or beliefs you do have. People gathering because they're atheists is no more a religion than people gathering because they share any other trait in common.

6.    something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience (See this a lot in atheists, arguing their points in ethics.)

Atheism itself doesn't really make any points about anything. The biggest point it can ever make, itself, is a refutation of somebody ELSE'S point that God exists. That's all.

Atheism is a religion.

It's hard to believe you aren't being this ignorant on purpose. I have a feeling you're either trolling or simply are very, very ignorant of what atheism actually is or what atheists are like.

[viskaslietuvai]

Two parts:

Part one: the joke

do you have ritual observances related to your lack of belief in three-legged sloths?

Whaddya mean lack of belief in three-legged sloths? Of course I believe in Slower-Than-Normal-Sloth my sloth who tragically lost his foot in a mining accident. Unless you feel that sloths have two arms and two legs in which case you must be referring to Faster-Than-Normal-Sloth who is my mutant three-legged sloth born to STNS after being diagnosed with cancer and given a large dose of radiation therapy. STNS was pregnant at time of rescue.

Part Two:

People gathering because they're atheists is no more a religion than people gathering because they share any other trait in common.

I agree, but that's probably not a surprise.

Also, in looking at atheism definitions and articles, I'm seeing a lot of the words "doctrine" and "belief" but distinctly absent is the term "religion." It's left off the list of religions on Wikipedia. Okay, maybe Wikipedia doesn't have enough credibility here, but in most charts of size of religions it's typically lumped into a category including agnostics known as the "nonreligious" category.

Additionally (again, Wikipedia, apologies)

The most widely known Western criticism of religious constructs and their social consequences has come from atheists and agnostics.

if atheism were a religion it would be a religious construct, yes? Therefore it would be criticizing itself, which, while not insane, certainly doesn't help a doctrine or belief argue its case. And I think it's already been established that a belief, unless held in a fashion such as devotion, is not a religion by any definition of the term.

[G-Flex]

Also, in looking at atheism definitions and articles, I'm seeing a lot of the words "doctrine" and "belief"

I hate to beat a dead horse, but the thing is that it's not even necessarily those.

[Sergius]

Seriously guys, saying that Atheism is itself a religion, as it means not having a religion, so enough people not having a religion make up a religion...

That's like saying that not belonging to a club means that you belong to the Club of People that Don't Belong to Any Clubs.

[G-Flex]

as it means not having a religion

*headdesk*

You can have an atheistic religion just fine. Buddhism works that way most of the time. All the term implies is a lack of god(s).

[Sergius]

as it means not having a religion

*headdesk*

You can have an atheistic religion just fine. Buddhism works that way most of the time. All the term implies is a lack of god(s).

*sigh*

I know that perfectly, my point stands. Atheist EQUAL lack of belief in god NOT EQUAL religion that believes that there are no gods.

Even if it may include them. But of course you just added more fuel to "oh so then you ADMIT atheism is a religion then?" side.