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[G-Flex]

You know you can disable the economy, right? Toady pretty much knows it's broken. You can also have the economy without coins at all.

But yeah, the pathfinding is probably the biggest killer there is. Certainly the one that's talked about most.

[Lord Dakoth]

Adventure mode, anyone?

What really sinks my boat is that you cannot perform "complex" wrestling moves on wild animals, and that there is no "Break Neck" move.

I can't tell you how many times I was pissed off enough to want to snap that one wolf's tail.

[dnabios]

You know you can disable the economy, right? Toady pretty much knows it's broken. You can also have the economy without coins at all.

But yeah, the pathfinding is probably the biggest killer there is. Certainly the one that's talked about most.

Yeah, taking out the economy and/or fluid dynamics makes my FPS  er , but then I feel like I'm losing out on a big chunk of what Toady wants the game to be.  There are a bunch of people kicking around pathfinder improvements here:

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=43265.0

that may or may not go anywhere.  But if anyone wants to take a look they've got a lot of brainstorming going on.  I have a lot of faith Toady will get to it in good time...40d16 is already mountains better than 40d.

[Camkitsune]

I personally think the single biggest turn-off for new players is the learning-curve; an easy quick fix would be a link to the tutorial in the wiki, though that would have to be updated regularly.
My own personal hang-ups would all more or less be resolved by the army arc.

Also, in keeping with the grand tradition, Dwarf Fortress is awesome, and Toady One really deserves to be some sort of memetic badass for creating it.

[Chronas]

memes aren't invented -they just happen to catch on

[Innominate]

Adventure mode, anyone?

What really sinks my boat is that you cannot perform "complex" wrestling moves on wild animals, and that there is no "Break Neck" move.

I can't tell you how many times I was pissed off enough to want to snap that one wolf's tail.

It's actually fairly easy to mod in these abilities, and doesn't require a regen as far as I remember (could easily be wrong).

I made the spine a joint, along with the neck and added joints for most non-humanoids. It made wrestling overpowered if you used it yourself, or totally deadly if you found a titan before you had legendary strength and wrestling yourself.

Now if only spinal damage affected movement beyond causing unconsciousness. Sigh, we can dream.

[G-Flex]

memes aren't invented -they just happen to catch on

Of course a meme can be invented. Whether or not it's intentionally invented is irrelevant. Also, an unpopular meme is still a meme. Also, I'm pretty sure you aren't sure what "meme" really means. Wikipedia will tell you.

Adventure mode, anyone?

Toady has mentioned, I think in the recent podcast, that Adventure Mode is in fact barely playable right now and that this largely has to do with it getting the shaft in recent updates, and that he's going to try to work on it a bit in the near future, possibly for this release.

Yeah, taking out the economy and/or fluid dynamics makes my FPS  er , but then I feel like I'm losing out on a big chunk of what Toady wants the game to be.

Honestly, I don't consider the economy as it is to be representative of what Toady wants the game to be at all. It's sort of a broken barely-implemented system that needs an overhaul, but can do without for the moment because it's not as essential as other thing.

[Chronas]

I know what a meme is, Dawkins wrote the book on memes and described their characteristics as likened to a virus: its a phrase, image or concept that you see/hear and due to its catchiness, remember. Then in mentioning it it spreads to other people -more easily via the internet. people don't just go "HAY, i invented this meme, lets spread it around!". Toady's legendary program skills could be described as slightly memetic, but not on the scale of free mugs and catsplosions.

hmm, my recent posts are quite a derail -i should probably leave this topic until something about DF actually annoys me enough to complain about.

[Neruz]

people don't just go "HAY, i invented this meme, lets spread it around!".

Actually sometimes they do. Some of the most successful memes were basically started by someone on 4chan going "Hay, i invented this meme, lets spread it around!"

LOLcats being the ultimate example in fact.

[Neonivek]

As someone once said... Memes are anti-comedy. (Cracked.com I hate that site but unfortunately I don't have an alternative "Random facts/factoid" site that updates daily)

Frankly I agree.

[Neruz]

It varies. Sometimes they're funny.

[G-Flex]

I know what a meme is, Dawkins wrote the book on memes and described their characteristics as likened to a virus: its a phrase, image or concept that you see/hear and due to its catchiness, remember. Then in mentioning it it spreads to other people -more easily via the internet. people don't just go "HAY, i invented this meme, lets spread it around!". Toady's legendary program skills could be described as slightly memetic, but not on the scale of free mugs and catsplosions.

hmm, my recent posts are quite a derail -i should probably leave this topic until something about DF actually annoys me enough to complain about.

Memes are more likened to genes; it's where the word comes from. They're units of culturally-transmitted information. Whether or not it's intentionally invented to be spread around doesn't affect this fact at all. A lot of wide-spreading ideas are invented with that in mind, from dumb internet jokes to political talking points to advertisements.


"Memes" (the internet pop culture version) aren't really anti-comedy, although they make being anti-comedy easy. Clever use of them is still funny.

[Neonivek]

What makes it anti-comedy is that instead of people just watching something and finding it funny... They instead pick something and decide that it is funny. That is WHY it is a meme.

Hense why Memes tend to last much longer then they are funny, because of course they are funny, that is why they are a meme

Frankly I am tired of the "Awsomeness of Dwarf Fortress" jokes a long time ago. That turns me off about dwarf fortress...

[Neruz]

Well most of the good memes became memes because they were funny, so to speak.

Alot of the ones that have been 'decided were funny' were funny in the specific circumstances of their conception, but unless you happen to be in on the joke you won't get it. "A Cat is Fine Too" being an excellent example; if you know what i'm talking about it's actually pretty funny, if you don't it won't make any sense at all.

Alot of memes do end up as in-jokes, often because in-jokes are usually more funny.

[de5me7]

when i first got the game (discovered it on an indie blog) i got stuck at the embark screen because being on a laptop if hav different +/- keys than a PC keyboard. It took me a good five minutes to consider plugging in a pc keyboard. I nearly gave up on the game at this point (abit dim with hindsight).

I didnt find learning the game to difficult having already played nethack, and having had to learn to use software like Arc GIS. The main things that shook me were.

Building a well, it didnt occur to me that I the player would have to channel water to under neath the well and actually dig the well. I just assumed i got the stuff and the rest was automated like a typical rts game.

It took me a while to get the hang of assigning tasks to dwarfs. Theres a job manager and other screens (i dont use these now, ever). i tried to use them to get the dorfs to do stuff rather than pressing D or Q and initiating tasks at the workshop or resource.

I found the wiki very helpful, i used the 1st year fortress tutorial alot.

I think the issue was the initial shock of the complexity level. In most strategy or management games most of the activity is automated for you. You build a farm and it produces resource by its self for the rest of the game (or its life). in df you build a farm on the right surface type, under ground (or above ground), plant seeds in the right seasons, make sure theres a farmer and gatherers, store em, cook em etc. This complexity isnt a problem but it would be better if the rules or way the game works was communicated very early in the game