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Author Topic: What turns you off about DF?  (Read 314550 times)

Durin

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1245 on: February 04, 2010, 01:33:11 am »

THis may sound weird or trivial, but for me, it's messing up dig projects and being unable to "fix" the problems because you can't engrave constructed walls.

I like big polished engraved forts and if the digging goes wrong and I can't fix, have to start over from scratch, and sometimes I've invested too much time to do that, so I stop for a while.

I have to concur. Nothing in the entire world today would be engraved if you had to do it in living stone, except a handful of stone age cave sculpts.

I have NO idea where the idea came from that constructed walls should not be engraved.
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nenjin

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1246 on: February 04, 2010, 01:57:39 am »

Probably just an oversight, rather than an intentional omission.
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Footkerchief

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1247 on: February 04, 2010, 01:58:02 am »

Nothing in the entire world today would be engraved if you had to do it in living stone, except a handful of stone age cave sculpts.

That's a bit of an oversimplification.
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Grimshot

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1248 on: February 04, 2010, 02:00:20 am »

Currently the main things that bother me are....

Not being able to remove stairs from the bottom to the top (so I can dig a pit without leaving a staircase).

Game is to easy.

Can't manage my military dwarves inventory enough to make them let go of items they wrestle away from other dwarfs. If they happen to own the item they wrestled away you can't even make them drop it with the dump command (should be fixed in the next version I think).

Deciding they are to thirsty to complete a task while almost there/almost done (Taken care of in the next version).

Not being able to engrave constructed walls/floors.

Dwarves running off into the wilderness when threatened rather then running toward saftey when they have a direct and safe path to it. Should be personality based IMO, calm ones will choose a safe route to a safe place while the less cool headed ones run in a random direction.

The reply box is starting to harrass me so I'll just leave it at that for now.
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Gnoll Fortress

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1249 on: February 04, 2010, 09:49:55 am »

What turns me off about df?
Most of the interface I can work with now that I learned it but the problem I have the most with the interface is the trading screen. Selecting every item I want on the list and everything I need to sell to get it is as fun as getting poked in the eye.
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DFPongo

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1250 on: February 04, 2010, 04:45:02 pm »

The user interface is like it is intended to reflect how the game is written, instead of how its played.
Anything you want to do to a cage, you should be able to do by selecting it.
If you want to do something to all cages, that should be an option there by selecting one as well.
When ever an item is selected, the right menu should populate with the first level of all things that can be done to that item. If an list of objects contained in the outer object is relevent, there should be a selection to see that list of items, select them and bring up their menu.
If you see a sword on the floor, or see it in a body, or see it in the possesion of your hero, you should always have the option to have it melted, to upgrade it to store it or to give it to someone else.

New users would more intuitively learn what the game is about, and then graduate to the more abstract and powerful concepts in the game.
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Iban

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1251 on: February 05, 2010, 12:15:39 am »

Dwarvern Emotions

  • Dwarves are incredibly superficial. A high-quality hangout and access to a variety of beer and food will easily compensate for the loss of an entire family.
  • Dwarves have Borderline Personality Disorder and will either be seemingly content and functional, or disruptive and damaging.
  • Tantrum chains are far too common in my fortresses. I don't know if I'm not building enough statues or if the idle state from being unproductive (I find keeping dwarves occupied challenging) allows them to all be close friends, but I have lost every fortress thus far from self-destruction, never outside influences. There needs to be some sort of kickback mechanism that keeps dwarves from going batshit insane. If Urist McBadGuy dies, they might note the loss of a friend, but the fact that the died in jail after suffering major injuries in a brawl with the Sheriff after murdering 5 babies should somewhat ease that stress.

The Stocks Menu
  • The stocks menu is just terrible. There really should be much more complex filtering settings so that I don't need to look at every tab doing things like remove dumping and foreboding item by item.
  • There needs to be a way to mass-manage all "unusable" objects. I have stockpiles (11x11 blocks) of finished goods filled with "Small," "Large," and "Narrow" clothes that I want to be melted down into Crucible Steel or dumped off the god damn chasm at this point.

Production
  • I have gone through about 5 very complex fortresses and have hit 200+ dwarves once now without summoning the Dwarvern Economy. I make ample use of the Job Manager when I actually need product. However, unless I just ordered a mined out slab of the mountain to be dumped into magma, my idlers hit about 75% of total population on average. I should be able to allocate "free use" items so that Dwarves may choose what crafts to build on their own. Not only does this make contributive output piles, but it keeps Dwarves busy and happy.

EDIT 1: An expansion on the superficiality aspect.

Instead of just int happiness, there should be something like:
int familyStability
int possessions
int outlook

familyStability can exist without the possessions (and vice versa) for awhile. If a dwarf loses his entire family familyStability will come crashing down. However, if he retains security monetarily and lives in a fabulous lifestyle, he will quickly meet new friends (raising familyStability) and return outlook to a stable level.

If a dwarf keeps his close friends and family but lives the slum dog millionare's lifestyle, then he can cope with this, too. Many people do.

It's not until both familyStability and possessions take a hit does outlook begin to decline. Once it hits 0 or so, he'll either rage or jump off my chasm.

HOWEVER: the hidden 4th option is that in either of the first two scenarios, things never improve. They continue to live in squalor or completely alone and outlook gradually declines. This means that a single dwarf in an expansive cave will no longer be possible. Dwarves need both shiny things and other people.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 12:29:45 am by Iban »
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Cheddarius

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1252 on: February 05, 2010, 12:33:18 am »

You name means "they were going" in Spanish.
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Urist McOverlord

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1253 on: February 05, 2010, 12:37:55 am »

Item number one as a new player was definitely the ASCII. I just couldn't follow it. I discovered the mayday tileset, and will not be going back for a long while.

The complexity and interface weren't so bad for me, chiefly because of tinypirate's tutorial. I didand still do have problems with managing idle dwarves, however. I like the idea of having some dwarves just auto-do certain tasks, but I digress.

The other issue I have is the "when is something going to happen?" Problem. Often I run df in the background because until more migrants or traders or goblin Christmas, I just don't have anything to do.

There's also some bugs with the "stay outside " order, and I wish some of the job cancel spam would stop, but now I'm just nitpicking.
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Spong

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1254 on: February 05, 2010, 09:05:36 am »

I agree with the points made about interface and graphics: the graphics was  a big initial turn-off for me which meant I didn't pick up DF for a long time after first hearing about it despite being interested by the concept. The UI I have only realised since I started playing as being not so great, obviously not enough to stop people playing but it could be slicker certainly.

Item number one as a new player was definitely the ASCII. I just couldn't follow it. I discovered the mayday tileset, and will not be going back for a long while.

The complexity and interface weren't so bad for me, chiefly because of tinypirate's tutorial. I didand still do have problems with managing idle dwarves, however. I like the idea of having some dwarves just auto-do certain tasks, but I digress.

The other issue I have is the "when is something going to happen?" Problem. Often I run df in the background because until more migrants or traders or goblin Christmas, I just don't have anything to do.

There's also some bugs with the "stay outside " order, and I wish some of the job cancel spam would stop, but now I'm just nitpicking.

Weird that you have this problem, I am the total opposite, I always have so many projects going on simultaneously and never enough dorfs to get them done.
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Iban

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1255 on: February 05, 2010, 10:40:39 am »

Does really nobody care about the stocks menu? :(

You name means "they were going" in Spanish.
Vamanos!
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nenjin

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1256 on: February 05, 2010, 01:08:39 pm »

Quote
The other issue I have is the "when is something going to happen?" Problem. Often I run df in the background because until more migrants or traders or goblin Christmas, I just don't have anything to do.

I'm the total opposite. I think this comes down to player types. I'm a micro-whore. I get nervous when the game is running and I'm not there to watch it, even when it pauses. I don't like knowing that dwarves are standing around when they could be doing something I need...and the way jobs are structured currently, there's always at least two dwarves who need to be reassigned/managed every few minutes.

That said, it's ok to have idle dwarves too. They do socialize while they're idle, which is something we often forget in the rush to make them work. If you've got the resources to soak up their slacking, let them slack for a year or two.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

James.Denholm

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1257 on: February 05, 2010, 03:58:42 pm »

Personaly, I don't mind slackers, but I've found a very easy way to fix them anyway.

Magma.
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Jiri Petru

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1258 on: February 05, 2010, 06:33:41 pm »

Does really nobody care about the stocks menu? :(

We do. But there's just so many things like this we usually just say "interface"  ;)

Also: I can't stand the idlers and always have to keep everyone busy. That means a lot of micromanagement. Some kind of labour automation is my dream.
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Durin

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1259 on: February 05, 2010, 10:05:01 pm »

Does really nobody care about the stocks menu? :(

We do. But there's just so many things like this we usually just say "interface"  ;)

Also: I can't stand the idlers and always have to keep everyone busy. That means a lot of micromanagement. Some kind of labour automation is my dream.

This ties into economy, which is broke broke broke broke broke.  The goal is for you to manage the idlers, because when the economy kicks in they will be quite underhappy with you if they have no jobs, hence no place to sleep and nothing to eat.

Sadly, one of the core necessities for the economy is coins, and apparently the minute you make them dwarves spend all their time getting them, putting them in bags, taking them home, putting them in chests, taking them back out, taking them to the store, etc etc etc.

I have heard that if you manage to store the coins in a locked chamber of some sort it works ok, but I have yet to get to the point where I wanted to undertake that as a project.

That's my understanding.

So no, I really don't want labor automation, I want coin issues straightened out.  Then the poor dwarves will rise up against their king and much Fun will ensue.
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