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Author Topic: What turns you off about DF?  (Read 314258 times)

Neruz

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #900 on: October 02, 2009, 08:46:04 am »

How about the fact that DF is basically a roguelike/rts hybrid? Even if it wasn't, my point about the small fanbase still stands.

IndonesiaWarMinister

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #901 on: October 02, 2009, 09:03:36 am »

How about the fact that DF is basically a roguelike/rts hybrid? Even if it wasn't, my point about the small fanbase still stands.
Yeah, it's roguelike/rts hybrid.

That, and by the way Toady deliberately sacrifice grafixxx for GAMEPLAY and DETAIL is what making it a roguelike, at least... in ideology. Also, we make dungeons ('fortress'), and explore them ('adventure mode').

(offtopic, but I have recently found out that both of the indie designer sacrifice graphic, for gameplay, and depth (Toady), and FUN (the other one))
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SirPenguin

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #902 on: October 02, 2009, 09:04:47 am »

How is a Real Time Strategy town management sim a "roguelike" in any way except that by default it uses ASCI for graphics?  Adventure Mode yes, but Adventure Mode barely exists yet.  Roguelike is not a synonym for any game that's hard to play and has crappy/no graphics.

Why do people feel such a need to nitpick on this point? I mean, what defines a roguelike? Randomization, no ability to save scum (death = permanent), the minimal focus on graphics, etc. etc. DF is a Roguelike in literally every aspect except one: city builder mode. That doesn't stop it from having the same pros and cons of every other roguelike out there as suggested by Neruz
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zwei

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #903 on: October 02, 2009, 09:27:13 am »

I call bullshit on you reading my post. I said that the fanbase for Toady is less important than it is for a major commercial company as Toady is far less interested in the bottom line.

Dwarf Fortress most certainly is an aberration. It's an exceedingly complex one and a half man roguelike game. All the standard game design models say that DF should have died by now, and indeed in 99% of the time it would. The original Armok being a good example, DF has managed to cheat the odds.

And finally, DF is a Roguelike, Roguelikes have small fanbases, compare the DF fanbase (which numbers maybe a thousand at most, and more like a few hundred) to the fanbase of a mainstream game, which will often number in the ten thousands, or, in the case of a certain MMO, over 11 million.

Finally, the fact that it has a steep learning curve for a good reason does not in any way change the fact that it has a steep learning curve.

1) He has interest in maintaining and growing fanbase. It it whole point of this thread, get list of items that slutters banbse growth. Toady is one man "Commercial Company" (hint: he needs new fans because older ones eventually get bored, go away and stop donating, which will likely end up in dead project)

2) As said, it is not roguelike. It has ascii graphics and can be played as one in one mode but that is fairly minor part of whole game (that, from what i have read, people are not really that interested in compared to dwarf mode.), it does not bring new players, it does not keep em playing, it is nothing special anyway, and it is not what development is about.

It is simcity without graphics, not a roguelike.

And as far as game design, goes, well, bs call again :). It is sandbox sim. It does not play by "standart design rules" rules; little story:

Developer of Elite (a open world space sim) was being rejected left and right by publishers. Why? Because his game lacked score display and player did not have "three lives". By all conventional wisdom of game design of that time, it was unplayable game that lacked most important features. It was destined to die. Err, no, it was destined to be played for 25+ years, to have numerous clones,to define whole genre and end up with mmo adaptation to boot.

Sandboxes break tons of rules for game are supposed to be players. That is because there is only one rule: Is game fun to play? That is all that matters.

DF did not manage to cheat odds, it simply works and is of popular genre. And it is genre that has huge audience, because at heart it is Sims in fantasy settings. Sims sold 100 000 000 copies, btw. Success of DF is pretty much guaranteed, really.

Last: game does not have steep curve for good reasons. It has steep curve for bad reasons (lack of time to fix it) or no reasons at all. There is no "good" reason to have steep learning curve.

Chronas

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #904 on: October 02, 2009, 12:38:42 pm »

Now call someone an idiot and we'll have ourselves an official flamewar!   :P
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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #905 on: October 02, 2009, 01:04:58 pm »

My original estimate was April 12th, before or after the meetup.
 
 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
 
 That's really the worst thing about DF at the moment- getting showed the new version but NOT BEING ALLOWED to play it... Argh.
 
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dyze

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #906 on: October 02, 2009, 02:40:36 pm »

why is everyone discussing all matters EXCEPT what the topic is actually about in here?
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Andir

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #907 on: October 02, 2009, 03:15:35 pm »

why is everyone discussing all matters EXCEPT what the topic is actually about in here?
Because... just when it's about to get back on topic, someone asks why it's off topic.  ;D
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John Hopoate

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #908 on: October 02, 2009, 08:57:21 pm »

It's nothing personal Toady but please don't talk about your cat so much, many of us see them as cold, loveless creatures that destroy our natural environment one bird at a time.

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Neruz

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #909 on: October 02, 2009, 09:48:34 pm »

It's nothing personal Toady but please don't talk about your cat so much, many of us see them as cold, loveless creatures that destroy our natural environment one bird at a time.

If you don't like cats, then with all due respect you're in the wrong internet.

Neonivek

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #910 on: October 02, 2009, 10:56:07 pm »

It's nothing personal Toady but please don't talk about your cat so much, many of us see them as cold, loveless creatures that destroy our natural environment one bird at a time.

Damn those humans! I mean Cats... No wait I mean humans with cats!
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kilakan

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #911 on: October 03, 2009, 10:36:01 am »

I personally love cats, cat-stew, cat-burgers, cat-steak.  Cat meat is just awesome.
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G-Flex

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #912 on: October 03, 2009, 02:28:28 pm »

It's nothing personal Toady but please don't talk about your cat so much, many of us see them as cold, loveless creatures that destroy our natural environment one bird at a time.

Translation:

Quote
You're not allowed to talk about any part of your personal life that involves something I don't personally enjoy. This includes cats, hot dogs, and the color mauve. Thank you. Your cooperation has been noted.
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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #913 on: October 03, 2009, 07:25:20 pm »

It's nothing personal Toady but please don't talk about your cat so much, many of us see them as warm, clever creatures that destroy our irritating 6 am wake-up call one bird at a time.

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Tarbourite

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #914 on: October 03, 2009, 08:32:30 pm »

I might be one of the few but I actually don't mind the "graphics" of Dwarf Fortress. What really turned me off at first and for quit a while was that I felt like the game didn't let me know I was doing anything wrong until my dwarfs were already, starving, under seige, completely insane etc. It was a little off putting a first.
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