Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[GoldenH]

I can think of a dozen nasty traps to pull on tunneling invaders. It'd even give you a reason to dig beneath an aquafier... but wouldn't it be awesome if a army sealed you inside your subterranean dwarven lair and then set up some pumps so tehy could follow you down???

As is , they don't even try to knock on your door

[Neruz]

As is , they don't even try to knock on your door

Unless they can knock it down, in which case they just walk right through it like it's made of paper.

[GoldenH]

Oh and who can forget the bugs that aren't really bugs, like

- dwarfs told to 'stay inside' will run around all over a hollowed out cliff face and can't figure out how to actually get inside, even if you demolish the ceiling.

- dwarfs won't empty out random bins if the stuff inside them belongs in a different stockpile.

[Andir]

I can think of a dozen nasty traps to pull on tunneling invaders. It'd even give you a reason to dig beneath an aquafier... but wouldn't it be awesome if a army sealed you inside your subterranean dwarven lair and then set up some pumps so tehy could follow you down???

As is , they don't even try to knock on your door

How will you know which way they are coming?  You'd have to encase your entire fort in layers of magma and water to truly protect it.  You'd spend more time doing that than actually building a prosperous city.

[eighty-one]

Well, this thread is kinda old and may have strayed from the original topic, but I don't feel like reading all 47 pages to find out, SO . .

When I was first learning, the UI was a major turnoff. I almost gave up but so many people loved the game so much, I decided to sit through a few hours, and it grew on me. Once I got the basics down, however, immigration really screwed me, and still does.

Immigration seems to happen at a pace that's far too rapid for my tastes. I've begun editing the pop cap, starting at 30, and moving up as I feel more comfortable, to slow the game down a bit.

I finally have a nice fortress, 40 years old, that I built by slowly upping the pop cap from 30 to 60 to 80, and then turning it off. The pace, while maybe a bit slow, was much more comfortable for me doing that.

[GoldenH]

I can think of a dozen nasty traps to pull on tunneling invaders. It'd even give you a reason to dig beneath an aquafier... but wouldn't it be awesome if a army sealed you inside your subterranean dwarven lair and then set up some pumps so tehy could follow you down???

As is , they don't even try to knock on your door

How will you know which way they are coming?  You'd have to encase your entire fort in layers of magma and water to truly protect it.  You'd spend more time doing that than actually building a prosperous city.

Hardly, it'd add about a day of digging to do that. Plus you might choose to start on an aquaduct to make things easier. I'd spend more time with stone stockpiles. If that's too much for you, there are dozens of  options. For instance you might actually decide to take the offense.

[Andir]

I can think of a dozen nasty traps to pull on tunneling invaders. It'd even give you a reason to dig beneath an aquafier... but wouldn't it be awesome if a army sealed you inside your subterranean dwarven lair and then set up some pumps so tehy could follow you down???

As is , they don't even try to knock on your door

How will you know which way they are coming?  You'd have to encase your entire fort in layers of magma and water to truly protect it.  You'd spend more time doing that than actually building a prosperous city.

Hardly, it'd add about a day of digging to do that. Plus you might choose to start on an aquaduct to make things easier. I'd spend more time with stone stockpiles. If that's too much for you, there are dozens of  options. For instance you might actually decide to take the offense.

Digging out an area totally surrounding your fort is not a "one day" task.  We are in 3D here.  You have to dig down, under, above, and on each side of your planned fort... and remember to keep at least one spot as a support structure and hope to hell that invaders don't destroy that as well.

[jamoecw]

he's a 2D player, so yeah it is a one day task.  as you get more dwarfs and your fortress expands you'll have space issues unless you planned ahead or kept your fortress compact.  in 2D this was paramount, so he may not have some uber project, he does have a rather efficient fort.  my first fort was built expecting hordes to be a problem, i dug that whole thing in about three days total, later on i decided to have expansive forts and it took much longer, and all the issues he talks about were worse.  all in all i'd say that tunneling invaders would be nice only if one can undo the damage they do without completely derailing your fort for the task.

[GoldenH]

Even in 3D (which I am playing right now despite preferring 2D) it doesn't take that long.. I normally get 4-8 miner dwarfs by the time i get a mayor, with only minor ambushes. At that point I can clear out an entire layer of rock very quickly even on a large map. And in fact, I am working on a megaproject right now. I am building a fortress perpetually suspended above a Chasm bathed in a magmafall and with an internal waterfall via an aquaduct.

The space you have to work with is obscenely huge in 3D DF.

[Granite26]

If this thread is going to be continued, should we enshrine the 'if you've got a reply to the OP, make it lime green, if you're just discussing stuff, leave it white' rule in the OP?

[GoldenH]

and how are people going to know that if its not in the OP?

[Granite26]

If this thread is going to be continued, should we enshrine the 'if you've got a reply to the OP, make it lime green, if you're just discussing stuff, leave it white' rule in the OP?

If this thread is going to be continued, should we enshrine the 'if you've got a reply to the OP, make it lime green, if you're just discussing stuff, leave it white' rule in the OP?

Should 'we' (Threetoe) change the OP to say 'please put initial responses in lime green'.

[jamoecw]

it is a function of how many stone haulers you need and how long each one takes to haul a stone to the stock pile.  if you have a compact fort they won't have to traverse the entirety of the map 2 or 3 times for each stone.  the fact that your uber project fits above a casm shows that you are a 2D player, a 3D player would scoff at such a small fortress, let alone calling such a small and simple thing an uber project.

try 4 fortresses each one for each season, with a water clock that control flood gates to allow passage a the correct time of year, and a system that forces the dwarves to migrate to the appropriate fortress at the proper time, with each fortress protected by surrounding it by magma with only a single water 'pipe' getting into the fortress.  it can be done by lowering floodgates and flooding each just enough to get the dwarves to run to where you want them to got to, a single chamber.  that chamber when ready will seal off and use water to wash the dwarves into a a series of water pipes which will rapidly bring them to their new fortress, caught by a grate as the water falls through it from a short water fall.

see what i mean by 2D payer and 3D?  it doesn't mean you aren't any good, just that a 3D player uses that space for needless and highly convoluted systems that are a bit delicate.  being able to drop a flood gate in place would help with repair work quite a bit when you need to close up a hole in a magma pipe, and can't afford any slop space when the job is done (not to mention needing to precisely refill the container as well).

[Andir]

I didn't want to say anything, but I wouldn't call the map insanely huge.  I would still love to be able to wall off an entire side of the world.  This would only be practical if the embark area dynamically shifted to follow construction.

[GoldenH]

see what i mean by 2D payer and 3D?  it doesn't mean you aren't any good, just that a 3D player uses that space for needless and highly convoluted systems that are a bit delicate.  being able to drop a flood gate in place would help with repair work quite a bit when you need to close up a hole in a magma pipe, and can't afford any slop space when the job is done (not to mention needing to precisely refill the container as well).

I certainly appreciate the sandbox potential, but from my perspective even a simple 1x1 area has more building space than the 2D version. You had, what... 1.5 screens of outside, 1 screen before the river, 2 screens between river and chasm, 1.5 screens between chasm and river and the final nigh-unavoidable stretch to the adamantine... that's like 6 1x1 z-layers and you can easily have 30-40 z-layers. So with a minimum 2x2 fortress you already have 4 times as much space to build as you did in 2D, 36x more with a 6x6 fortress (at which I can still empty out an entire Z layer in a day) and 256 times as much with a 16x16 ... this is really obscene huge to me

From a game aspect (not a sandbox POV) I think burrowing would be a nice bonus to those players who like the challenge of using space efficently.

When I say they should have digging in sieges I don't mean like dozens of crazy Legendary Miner/Macemen giving your fortress cancer. I mean maybe they just have like, one civilian miner with the raid who is programmed to find a path into your fortress. And even if they succeed (instead of just naively tunneling to your Rooms of Death you had the foresight to build around your fortress) you can always just fill it in again.