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[zilpin]

#1. Bugs.  Lots of them.  Old, well documented, reproducible, game-killing bugs.

#2. Tedious Micromanagement, particularly stockpiles.

#3. Bugs.


That's it.

[FritzPL]

OI, ye noble skinny elf bastards!

Do you have any idea why DF is 99.9% free of trolls?

cos' its hard as nails.

Trolls dont play game they dont understand. Troll schedule of de day:
1. Find a game main website
2. Download the game
3. M4K3 SUM AWSUM TROLLZ!!!!1!11

And that's it. DF is ASCII graphs in default, so they are discouraged. And they go find another game.


THIS is why this game should not be made any easier.
Or at least too easy.

Thank ye.
Fritz Sqvirrelvoiced sign out.

[PlainTextMan]

Aside from basic tutorials on what each menue does and how to dig and change z-levels, the / * - + <page up> and <page down> usage in the menues really bugs me.  If the menues at least had a unified system for moving around and selecting things, it would be a major imporvement in my opinion.

Also, legendary thread, because ThreeToe posted in it.

Edit:  Upgrading to full Unicode would be a good step in my opinion.  It would allow for the game to retain its ASCII feel, but diversify what symbols represent what objects, allowing the creation of full graphical tilesets by the players, instead of forcing today to spend a few weeks on art projects.

YES, especially to that last part.

Frankly, I think the ASCII is quite practical, and a nice feature for me. Of course, some things in the UI aren't communicating as clearly as they could (should!) eg. ambigious symbols, inability to descern my legendary spear from another steel spear on the ground etc. but overall it's more the UI navigation and generally incoherent interface that bothers me, even as an experienced player who by and large enjoys the game.

Even if tile sets worked and looked better, the game would still be massively complex and slow to learn. Ostensibly pictures of real-life-recognizable things like buckets and beds are easier to memorise than symbols, so I'm definitely not against that users should have the option of a nice working tile set. However as has been said by several people now:
In-game tutorials for the newbies, please! Not that the tutorials on the wiki are bad, just that they aren't always up to date, and that they are not immediately visible to dabblers who try out the game.

Extensive in-game tutorials should be difficult to create and maintain. Perhaps tutorial fort recordings or some things like that can be packaged with each release. These can then be maintained by the community, and/or kept simple enough for maintainance by Toady and Three Toe. Or perhaps an in-game link to an official wiki tutorial would suffice.

[PlainTextMan]

Do you have any idea why DF is 99.9% free of trolls?

cos' its hard as nails.

Trolls dont play game they dont understand. Troll schedule of de day:
1. Find a game main website
2. Download the game
3. M4K3 SUM AWSUM TROLLZ!!!!1!11

And that's it. DF is ASCII graphs in default, so they are discouraged. And they go find another game.

THIS is why this game should not be made any easier.
Or at least too easy.

I admit, the man has a bit of a point there.

[geneisnotlame]

i didn't know about q and ended up issuing all job commands through my manager's job list. needless to say i was delighted when a friend pointed it out to me, but he was delighted when he learned about the job list. i guess the mystery of the ui allows us to find our own ways of doing things

[Kogut]

Do you have any idea why DF is 99.9% free of trolls?

cos' its hard as nails.

Trolls dont play game they dont understand. Troll schedule of de day:
1. Find a game main website
2. Download the game
3. M4K3 SUM AWSUM TROLLZ!!!!1!11

And that's it. DF is ASCII graphs in default, so they are discouraged. And they go find another game.

THIS is why this game should not be made any easier.
Or at least too easy.

I admit, the man has a bit of a point there.

Startgame may still be hard but it should not be a excuse to ignore obvious bugs/interface problems.

[thvaz]

Do you have any idea why DF is 99.9% free of trolls?

cos' its hard as nails.

Trolls dont play game they dont understand. Troll schedule of de day:
1. Find a game main website
2. Download the game
3. M4K3 SUM AWSUM TROLLZ!!!!1!11

And that's it. DF is ASCII graphs in default, so they are discouraged. And they go find another game.

THIS is why this game should not be made any easier.
Or at least too easy.

I admit, the man has a bit of a point there.

Startgame may still be hard but it should not be a excuse to ignore obvious bugs/interface problems.

Kogut, the Bugfixes apostle of Bay12forum. Every posts he makes he preaches about the evil of Bugs.

[zwei]

I admit, the man has a bit of a point there.

How can he have point? That post is in typical troll format, ffs.

:bait bite:

[Footkerchief]

Kogut, the Bugfixes apostle of Bay12forum. Every posts he makes he preaches about the evil of Bugs.

Complaining about bugs is legit.

[Kogut]

Kogut, the Bugfixes apostle of Bay12forum. Every posts he makes he preaches about the evil of Bugs.

Sigged.

[NakedFury]

New here.

What turns me off about DF is the interface.

Graphics = sort of fixed with the packs and stuff but the interface remains the same, its a turn offer for me. I still play the game but...its still there.

[The Merchant Of Menace]

I admit, the man has a bit of a point there.

How can he have point? That post is in typical troll format, ffs.

:bait bite:

Not to mention the fact that people don't need to play the game in order to troll the community.

[Draco18s]

I admit, the man has a bit of a point there.

How can he have point? That post is in typical troll format, ffs.

:bait bite:

Not to mention the fact that people don't need to play the game in order to troll the community.

Heck, you don't even need to be trolling in order to troll.

[Buttery_Mess]

All true, but also pointing to an underlying problem.  The military system is awesome--powerful, detailed, versatile.  The military interface, however, is in my opinion the worst part (by far) of the "generally bad" interface.

This is very true. I love the military screen, although it would be nice to be able to sort through dwarves better and make use of all the space on a maximised window. However, for a game where there is so much micromanagement, there's very little useful micromanagement for coordinating military engagements. DF isn't Command & Conquer, but it would be nice if you could tell dwarves to hold ground, charge, retreat (in a specific direction or to a specific place) or skirmish on their own. As it is now, you can only tell them to hang about in a general area and hope they don't run off and do something stupid, or dither at the back of the battlements where they won't fire their crossbows at the enemy.

[MrWiggles]

All true, but also pointing to an underlying problem.  The military system is awesome--powerful, detailed, versatile.  The military interface, however, is in my opinion the worst part (by far) of the "generally bad" interface.

This is very true. I love the military screen, although it would be nice to be able to sort through dwarves better and make use of all the space on a maximised window. However, for a game where there is so much micromanagement, there's very little useful micromanagement for coordinating military engagements. DF isn't Command & Conquer, but it would be nice if you could tell dwarves to hold ground, charge, retreat (in a specific direction or to a specific place) or skirmish on their own. As it is now, you can only tell them to hang about in a general area and hope they don't run off and do something stupid, or dither at the back of the battlements where they won't fire their crossbows at the enemy.

All this stuff was suppose to be in the initial release for DF2010. But for time sake, it got cut, and looks like it'll be waiting until after the 10 or so short term caravan release.