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Author Topic: What turns you off about DF?  (Read 313065 times)

Flaede

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1140 on: December 14, 2009, 09:01:31 am »

Quote
I've been playing DF for about a month now and the 1. problem for me is that this game hates me. Most new games now give you a reward for successfully zooming in and out; DF punishes you for every single mistake and laughs in your face: "You forgot about water pressure didn't you moron? Haha, you dwarfs can't swim and they never will. Good luck making a new fort with you plant gatherer and paraplegic hunter, bitch."

Funny, this is the #1 reason I can't stop playing the game.

Me too. I mean, that fort with 26 children and one adult.. on a glacier... EPIC.
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Toady typically doesn't do things by half measures.  As evidenced by turning "make hauling work better" into "implement mine carts with physics".
There are many issues with this statement.
[/quote]

CaptainNitpick

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1141 on: December 14, 2009, 09:52:49 am »

This suggestion rubbed me completely the wrong way.

Also the game has very little replay-ability(?), should have more "new game +" features and keep players interested. You got a fortress with 500 dwarves? - you can start with 8 folks from now on. You survived for 10 years in freezing/scorching climate? - you get the option do adjust the overall temperature in world creator. You killed 50 elf caravans? - you get to adjust the elf population in world creator... This would also allow goal-oriented scenarios (export over 9000 ores, provide X power to your dwarf kingdom, secure an outpost in hostile territory) or playing in challenge mode (like the ones on DFwiki).

If this was in the game, I would be here complaining about how it turns me off. It's a mechanic that says "you're playing a game, score points". Dwarf Fortress is a sandbox, points are unnecessary and detrimental.

Interesting challenges are beyond the computer's ability to understand anyway. You could never program in an achievement for something like The Underworld Challenge.
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Andir

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1142 on: December 14, 2009, 10:36:10 am »

This suggestion rubbed me completely the wrong way.

Also the game has very little replay-ability(?), should have more "new game +" features and keep players interested. You got a fortress with 500 dwarves? - you can start with 8 folks from now on. You survived for 10 years in freezing/scorching climate? - you get the option do adjust the overall temperature in world creator. You killed 50 elf caravans? - you get to adjust the elf population in world creator... This would also allow goal-oriented scenarios (export over 9000 ores, provide X power to your dwarf kingdom, secure an outpost in hostile territory) or playing in challenge mode (like the ones on DFwiki).

If this was in the game, I would be here complaining about how it turns me off. It's a mechanic that says "you're playing a game, score points". Dwarf Fortress is a sandbox, points are unnecessary and detrimental.

Interesting challenges are beyond the computer's ability to understand anyway. You could never program in an achievement for something like The Underworld Challenge.
Don't you understand?  This is the generation of achievements.  We need a way to show off our e-peen gaming prowess!! rawwr!
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Rowanas

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1143 on: December 14, 2009, 10:41:58 am »

I'm a massive award whore and even I don't like the idea of adding objectives like that to DF.
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Footkerchief

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1144 on: December 14, 2009, 11:20:17 am »

Hardcoded objectives would be dull, but giving the player more interesting in-game objectives (such as production quotas from the Mountainhomes, or requests for soldiers) is definitely a development goal.

Don't you understand?  This is the generation of achievements.  We need a way to show off our e-peen gaming prowess!! rawwr!

Please try to argue in good faith rather than misrepresenting your opponent's position.  It's widely acknowledged, by Toady as much as anyone else, that both game modes have a severe lack of challenges and scenarios.

For future development I suggest the devs focus on optimizing old features before adding new ones. Cows can't be milked; soap can't be used; workers are stronger and tougher than soldiers, no (work) animals can haul...

The upcoming version (due out in a month or so) has useful soap (dwarves wash with it, it makes them happy and prevents infections) and has a new skill/attribute system that increases attributes (like strong, tough, etc.) with usage rather than with overall XP, meaning the worker/soldier issue is fixed.  So that's two out of those four.  It also has a ton of other new features.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 11:23:40 am by Footkerchief »
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Neonivek

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1145 on: December 14, 2009, 11:28:04 am »

Quote
Why is the game punishing me with nobles?

In some ways it is a way to add some additional challenge.

Though in others it is a placeholder for the future where Nobles will be tied with genuin power.
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HideousBeing

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1146 on: December 14, 2009, 01:24:07 pm »

Nobles and having my engravers engrave events about engraving...

This is an engraving of Urist McEngraver engraving about engraving!

If we could get some real engravings in our fortress it would make them sooo much more interesting.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 01:28:14 pm by HideousBeing »
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Lost Requiem

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1147 on: December 14, 2009, 06:52:33 pm »

I'd say the impossible-to-fulfill mandates *Make glass in a sandless map*, unexplainably huge recovery times for a Superhumanly Tough Dwarf *A year and ongoing to mend a broken leg*, and the spam of job cancel because the Dwarf can't find the items they were trying to store something in.

Granted, these are minor nitbitchings, but the one that takes the cake is the inability to identify who or what killed who in the universe where, and it involves me searching around for a long time looking for Urist McDorf who got eaten by the local fauna while Hunting or Chopping Wood.

Urist McDorf has been stricken down by the Cock Goblin in 221 Late Spring.

It'd be nice if the view-location option in their menu in the unit selection screen is changed so you can view where they got killed.
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Footkerchief

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1148 on: December 14, 2009, 07:04:00 pm »

unexplainably huge recovery times for a Superhumanly Tough Dwarf *A year and ongoing to mend a broken leg*

The next version's massive revisions to wounds/healthcare should handle this.

the one that takes the cake is the inability to identify who or what killed who in the universe where, and it involves me searching around for a long time looking for Urist McDorf who got eaten by the local fauna while Hunting or Chopping Wood.

Urist McDorf has been stricken down by the Cock Goblin in 221 Late Spring.

This is Req104.  It may or may not have been handled as part of the combat announcement revisions below:

# Req104, SLAYER ANNOUNCEMENT, (Future): In dwarf mode, it could include the slayer in some of the death announcements if it is warranted.

It'd be nice if the view-location option in their menu in the unit selection screen is changed so you can view where they got killed.

This one is handled too: "You can view adv mode style messages by creature and category (comb/hunt/spar) now and all of the announcements have associated dates. Those that have associated locations are zoomable from the announcement/report screens."
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Lost Requiem

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1149 on: December 14, 2009, 07:37:20 pm »

Bitchin'.

I missed one more, and I was reminded of it when my Dungeon Master arrived with his entourage.

I've had a massive issue with migrant-splosions in all of my fortresses, larger than the catsplosion *Both conventional and thermonuclear* could ever hope to become. All of my migrant waves have been well over 20 *My first migrant wave in one fortress was 35!!!*, which, even with huge surpluses I enjoy, cause the entire economy to nearly implode unto itself. Would there be a way to limit the number of migrants that arrive at one time? I mean, for Armok's sake, they're dwarves, not Mexicans.
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cooz

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1150 on: December 14, 2009, 07:39:25 pm »

Hey, Footkerchief, how long it took you to memorize all those core components, requests, bloats and power goals from development pages? lol
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Footkerchief

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1151 on: December 14, 2009, 07:46:35 pm »

Hey, Footkerchief, how long it took you to memorize all those core components, requests, bloats and power goals from development pages? lol

Not very long.  As long as you remember a few key words, it's easy to Ctrl+F dev_single.  Keeping up with current development can take longer, though.
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Andir

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1152 on: December 14, 2009, 09:48:58 pm »

Don't you understand?  This is the generation of achievements.  We need a way to show off our e-peen gaming prowess!! rawwr!

Please try to argue in good faith rather than misrepresenting your opponent's position.  It's widely acknowledged, by Toady as much as anyone else, that both game modes have a severe lack of challenges and scenarios.
I was... it was brought up that we should have to complete some objectives to unlock certain aspects of the game.  That's lame IMHO.  It's a sandbox, not some kind of unlock fest full of achievements for showing off.
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Sysice

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1153 on: December 14, 2009, 10:00:48 pm »

Would there be a way to limit the number of migrants that arrive at one time? I mean, for Armok's sake, they're dwarves, not Mexicans.
There is now. Change the pop cap in the init file. It shouldn't go above that in multiple waves, and a single wave will take you at most a few dwarves beyond the cap.
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atomfullerene

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Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1154 on: December 15, 2009, 01:21:08 am »

I tend to see DF's useless nobles as a political statement about the parasitical nature of the ruling class.  Down with the outmoded monarchy of our ancestors!  Liberté, égalité, Dwarfernité!  To the lava-powered guillotine with them and their arrogant demands!!! 

*ahem* sorry had a bit of a moment there...
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