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Author Topic: Fun with chemistry!  (Read 4722 times)

chucks

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Re: Fun with chemistry!
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2009, 01:30:28 pm »

Also, pretty much anything will form a crystal, not just ionic compounds.

That's not correct.  Many ionic compounds will form crystal lattices.  Sodium Chloride, table salt, forms cubic crystals when grown correctly.  Other than mass health reasons, salt is also iodized to prevent it from clumping and forming crystals.  I also remember growing copper(II) sulfate crystals in high school chemistry.

The only trick about ionic crystals is that they are dissolved by water and don't last very long.  The exception to this are areas where the local water supply is already saturated with the compound.  Salt crystal pillars grow in the Dead Sea since the body of water is already saturated with salt.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 01:34:49 pm by chucks »
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Footkerchief

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Re: Fun with chemistry!
« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2009, 06:44:41 pm »

^^^ He said "not just"?
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LegoLord

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Re: Fun with chemistry!
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2009, 07:53:32 pm »

The only trick about ionic crystals is that they are dissolved by water and don't last very long.
Au contraire (yes I actually take French), not all of them.  Far from it.  There aren't terribly many readily soluble ionic compounds.  Most stones are ionic crystals, just not in the "ooh-sparkly-gem" variety.  Many are in fact mixtures of ionic compounds.  If you look up bauxite on wikipedia, it gives several different formulas for the minerals that compose bauxite.  Another good example is our good friend microcline.  Rubies and sapphires are actually both impure variants of corundum, or Aluminum Oxide (which is clear).  Emeralds are also somewhat ionic, but do contain silicon dioxide.  Most of DF's metal ores are also ionic compounds laced into other rocks.

Then of course there are the Calcium Carbonate-based minerals, known to most of us who play DF as flux stone.  This will dissolve, but only to a varying extent.  This is not only one reason why stalactites form, but also an important factor in why they form so slowly. 
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"Oh look there is a dragon my clothes might burn let me take them off and only wear steel plate."
And this is how tinned food was invented.
Alternately: The Brick Testament. It's a really fun look at what the bible would look like if interpreted literally. With Legos.
Just so I remember

Nivim

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Re: Fun with chemistry!
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2009, 08:02:23 pm »

On gem values: Humans. Like. Shiny things.

If it is shiny (and colorful), it's value will be inflated. I spent a few minutes thinking about this, and it still proves true, even for people selling shiny pots and pans.

For ionic solids, I fear this argument doesn't make enough sense. Magma should be applied.
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Imagine a cool peice of sky-blue and milk-white marble about 3cm by 2cm and by 0.5cm, containing a tiny 2mm malacolite crystal. Now imagine the miles of metamorphic rock it's embedded in that no pick or chisel will ever touch. Then, imagine that those miles will melt back into their mantle long before any telescope even refracts an image of their planet. The watchers will be so excited to have that image too.

LegoLord

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Re: Fun with chemistry!
« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2009, 08:17:57 pm »

For ionic solids, I fear this argument doesn't make enough sense.
Eh?  What do you mean?  Most gems and stones are mixtures of minerals.
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"Oh look there is a dragon my clothes might burn let me take them off and only wear steel plate."
And this is how tinned food was invented.
Alternately: The Brick Testament. It's a really fun look at what the bible would look like if interpreted literally. With Legos.
Just so I remember

chucks

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Re: Fun with chemistry!
« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2009, 10:09:59 pm »

My apologies, I misread the poster I quoted.

Still, perhaps the solubility of materials and concoctions could be introduced.  There are a great many things that are water mixtures, and others that use some other solvent.  Tincture of iodine comes to mind.

Most highly soluble ionic compounds are the alkili halides.  The first and last colums of the periodic table.  These groups tend to move around more freely in reactions and are only truly stable when formed in more complex arrangements with one of the positive or negative group being more complex than the other.  Many rocks and minerals that are stable tend to have a lot of carbon and silicone and less reactive metals and halogens.

Chemistry can become truly complex, and I don't really know my stance on overcomplicating an already complex system of interactions.  Higher utility chemical products and reagents could be added, but overly complex interactions are simply too much to model in the microcosm.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 10:16:16 pm by chucks »
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Nivim

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Re: Fun with chemistry!
« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2009, 12:41:00 am »

For ionic solids, I fear this argument doesn't make enough sense.
Eh?  What do you mean?  Most gems and stones are mixtures of minerals.
Read it again while consulting your high school/college education, then stop responding to it.
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Imagine a cool peice of sky-blue and milk-white marble about 3cm by 2cm and by 0.5cm, containing a tiny 2mm malacolite crystal. Now imagine the miles of metamorphic rock it's embedded in that no pick or chisel will ever touch. Then, imagine that those miles will melt back into their mantle long before any telescope even refracts an image of their planet. The watchers will be so excited to have that image too.

LegoLord

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Re: Fun with chemistry!
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2009, 04:46:49 pm »

For ionic solids, I fear this argument doesn't make enough sense.
Eh?  What do you mean?  Most gems and stones are mixtures of minerals.
Read it again while consulting your high school/college education, then stop responding to it.
At least have the decency to tell me what's wrong and give me some actual citation.  Did you even look at my links?

Okay, so I didn't write out the exact scientific explanation, but how many people would understand that?  Ions are simple enough, but equilibrium reactions involving solids solutes aren't.  Anyway, earlier I was referring to the type of crystal structure diamond has, not crystal structures in general.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 05:22:26 pm by LegoLord »
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"Oh look there is a dragon my clothes might burn let me take them off and only wear steel plate."
And this is how tinned food was invented.
Alternately: The Brick Testament. It's a really fun look at what the bible would look like if interpreted literally. With Legos.
Just so I remember

ThreeToe

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Re: Fun with chemistry!
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2009, 06:55:15 pm »

Try to keep it friendly.
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