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[Zogundar]

It seems that ranged weapons have extra lethality that they do not possess in the actual game. I've noticed almost if not all instances of death from a custom race I've made are due to them being shot. They are otherwise about as dominant as I'd expect, so I assume it's something to do with ranged weapons.

[Blakmane]

It seems that ranged weapons have extra lethality that they do not possess in the actual game. I've noticed almost if not all instances of death from a custom race I've made are due to them being shot. They are otherwise about as dominant as I'd expect, so I assume it's something to do with ranged weapons.

Ranged weapons possess that extra lethality in the actual game as well. A single crossbowman can easily break an entire siege of melee goblins. It is generally thought to be a balance issue and should be fixed next version.

Nerfing them is easy. Go into the item_ammo raw and lower the damage values of arrows and bolts to 20 or 30. You could also change the damage type to BLUDGEON, which will reduce instant kills due to organ piercing.

[Zogundar]

Are you sure? I haven't seen that in the actual game. I wonder if world generation takes into account whether or not a creature has internal organs and such for combat.

But looking over the comparitive damage values, bolts and arrows are powerful, but they aren't the highest. Why am I only seeing death by shooting?

[Blakmane]

Are you sure? I haven't seen that in the actual game. I wonder if world generation takes into account whether or not a creature has internal organs and such for combat.

But looking over the comparitive damage values, bolts and arrows are powerful, but they aren't the highest. Why am I only seeing death by shooting?

Because they have the PIERCE damage type, which critical hits, which has the critical effect of piercing internal organs. Spears also have this, but they tend to get stuck in people. Just changing the damage type to BLUDGEON hugely reduces their potential damage output. Don't forget they also have range and the fire rate of a machinegun.

Seriously, poke around in this forum and you'll find many people complaining about mass crossbow/bow spam.

World generation combat definitely takes organs into account, as you can have megabeasts turn up missing limbs/eyes/having damaged organs from worldgen fights. If you look in the legends you can see the outcome of the fights as well.

[Zogundar]

World generation combat definitely takes organs into account, as you can have megabeasts turn up missing limbs/eyes/having damaged organs from worldgen fights. If you look in the legends you can see the outcome of the fights as well.

That's where I've been looking and finding the problem.

However, I think it's important to point out that while creatures can lose limbs in worldgen, when you get into the actual game they often immediately pass out and are otherwise incapable of functioning, which brings into question the validity of their survival from whatever caused such damage to their being.

[Duke 2.0]

 Things not on screen are very roughed-up at the moment, hopefully something that will be cleaned up later in the Army Arc.

 Still, this could lead to hilarity with the layers coming out in the next version.

[Tigershark13]

I'm kinda split on the crossbow issue... in some ways it makes sense, since bows were very leathal... in others its really not since the game makes them so damned accurate (usually)... oh and a hail of arrows/bolts always looks damned cool (in my opinion anyway)

[Duke 2.0]

 Trust me, when layers get in projectiles will have more difficulty striking every organ and exiting through the left eyeball. Then we can look forward to reloading taking longer. Then we can dream of projectiles taking arcs towards their targets.

[ToonyMan]

Layers of skin, muscle, bone, fat, organs, etc. will all be defending the most vital thing, thou heart.

[RAM]

Crossbows were devastating, mostly because they were so easy to use. Someone with almost no training can turn a crank, insert a bolt, point, and trigger the release. They were regarded as cheating on account of using mere peasants in capacities that should have required bowmen with years of experience. Ranged weapons are overpowered, always have been, where modern equipment is available, melee weapons are basically only used in situations where the victim is not expected to be able to retaliate or even defend themselves. The ancient romans were famed for their javelins, which infantry would use to give themselves an advantage prior to engaging in melee. One-on-one, a crossbow should almost always defeat a melee, but in large groups the crossbows can be overwhelmed and closed with, at which point they should be at a disadvantage. One thing that might work would be choosing the target several frames in advance, to increase redundant fire...

I believe that you can weaken crossbows, generate a world, and then return them to their original stats, thus reducing their impact during world generation while having them operate normally in fortress mode. I am not a big fan of changing them to bludgeoning. Piercing gives them a high chance of fatal wounds against large living targets. So they are highly effective against the most common and dangerous opponents. But I can't help bt suspect that giving them bludgeoning damage changes them to be less effective against many opponents, but to make them effective against all opponents, so that instead of needing a backup plan for the metabolically challenged, you just need more bows...

[Blakmane]

Crossbows were devastating, mostly because they were so easy to use. Someone with almost no training can turn a crank, insert a bolt, point, and trigger the release. They were regarded as cheating on account of using mere peasants in capacities that should have required bowmen with years of experience. Ranged weapons are overpowered, always have been, where modern equipment is available, melee weapons are basically only used in situations where the victim is not expected to be able to retaliate or even defend themselves. The ancient romans were famed for their javelins, which infantry would use to give themselves an advantage prior to engaging in melee. One-on-one, a crossbow should almost always defeat a melee, but in large groups the crossbows can be overwhelmed and closed with, at which point they should be at a disadvantage. One thing that might work would be choosing the target several frames in advance, to increase redundant fire...

I believe that you can weaken crossbows, generate a world, and then return them to their original stats, thus reducing their impact during world generation while having them operate normally in fortress mode. I am not a big fan of changing them to bludgeoning. Piercing gives them a high chance of fatal wounds against large living targets. So they are highly effective against the most common and dangerous opponents. But I can't help bt suspect that giving them bludgeoning damage changes them to be less effective against many opponents, but to make them effective against all opponents, so that instead of needing a backup plan for the metabolically challenged, you just need more bows...

The greatest disadvantage of the crossbow was it's horrible fire rate, especially when coupled with it's shorter effective range. Thus why melee combat remained a strong part of warfare until the invention of gunpowder. Crossbows in dwarf fortress fire like machine guns, and there is no way to modify this in the raws. Thus if one *wishes* to reduce their effectiveness only way to compensate is to lower the damage. If one doesn't wish to, there is no argument.

[Zangi]

Bludgeon....  it gives knockback like a mace or hammer if I am correct...  I wonder... how effectively a hail of 'blunt' knockback bolts will... knock people around.  Goblin ping-pong anyone? 

Sounds quite Dwarvish....

[ToonyMan]

Hammerhead Rounds!

[RAM]

if you strapped explosives to the ends of the bolts they might deal bludgeoning damage, along with some other side-effects...

[ToonyMan]

Complex weapon customization!