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Author Topic: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.  (Read 16347 times)

Cthulhu

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #60 on: April 10, 2009, 11:55:45 pm »

They are indeed bringing home the bacon, and that's an honorable thing to do.  However, the problem arises because they're taking hard-earned bacon from other people under threat of death.
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Armok

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2009, 12:15:52 am »

They take it from PEOPLE? I got the impression they took it from faceless corporations and the occasional rich snob.
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So says Armok, God of blood.
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IndonesiaWarMinister

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2009, 12:25:45 am »

They take it from PEOPLE? I got the impression they took it from faceless corporations and the occasional rich snob.

The same impression I got too...
:P
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cowofdoom78963

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2009, 12:28:56 am »

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They take it from PEOPLE? I got the impression they took it from faceless corporations and the occasional rich snob.
Yes, normal people go around sending millions worth in merchandice over seas. :)

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they're taking hard-earned bacon from other people under threat of death.
Its what pirates do, they plunder and loot and take ransoms.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 12:40:15 am by cowofdoom78963 »
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Cthulhu

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2009, 12:48:38 am »

Corporations are considered people under the law.


Also, cowofdoom, where do you live?  I need money, and I think I'll take all of yours.
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Emperor_Jonathan

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2009, 12:49:44 am »

The Golden Age of Pirates* is over, they aren't the romanticised Pirates as they were before. They're terrorists, pure and simple. Using Speedboats, AK-47s RPGs and other modern day weaponry. For Christs sake pirates now days have been known to attack cruise ships! The most recent attack upon a US ship was carrying food aid to refugees, stealing money there are they? Pirates are using this 'hard-earned' stolen money to fund the drug trade, to gain weaponry and munitions and terrorize innocent populace in third world countries! Sure, they are attacking 'faceless corporations', by hi-jacking tankers of oil, and thus fuel. Raising the price of fuel in developed countries, impacting upon the average person! I cannot believe you're defending such heartless people.

This is not mentioning the trauma, injury and death caused by the pirates attacking and hijacking ships! They're not doing this to help the average person in the third-world, they're doing this to fund their own nefarious acts exploiting innocent people.

* The Golden Age of Pirates was otherwise known as the Golden Age of Sail, it ending near the end of the 18th century. 300 Years Ago!
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 12:53:07 am by Emperor_Jonathan »
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Leonon

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2009, 12:52:29 am »

Farmers farm
Bankers bank
Tax collectors collect taxes
Coast Guards guard coasts
And brother, Brigands steal from people
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 12:58:37 am by Leonon »
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Cthulhu

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2009, 12:53:35 am »

I think I could get behind cowofdoom's logic, the more I think about it.  Yes, pirates pirate, that's their job.  The Navy's job is to kill them.  It all works out fine.
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Emperor_Jonathan

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2009, 12:55:03 am »

Just because it's their job, it doesn't make it right, good or better than what it actually is. Terrorism.

I bet if it was closer to home, you wouldn't be so accepting!
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Cthulhu

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2009, 12:57:38 am »

This thread can't continue without at least one mention of

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Bromor Neckbeard

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #70 on: April 11, 2009, 12:59:48 am »

Quote from: PTTG
Why is this thread in General Discussion, anyway? somebody not get enough of VN? Somebody move this into life advice or something.

What on Earth are you talking about?  General Discussion is for discussion of current events, this is a current event.  We're not just talking about hypothetical piracy, there's a captain of an American merchantman that's being held hostage.  What the Hell does this gotta do with VN?  Read the links in the OP or something.

Quote from: Armok
They take it from PEOPLE? I got the impression they took it from faceless corporations and the occasional rich snob.

I'll be the first to consider corporations different from "people", but the workers on the boats that get attacked aren't "rich snobs", they're working-class blue-collar average Joes.  I've personally worked on what is called a "crew boat", a 100' vessel quite similar to some that have been attacked by pirates lately, although it only shipped supplies to oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico, so piracy was obviously never a problem for us.  Snobs?  A lot of the dudes who work on those boats make less than minimum wage.

I wouldn't call what the pirates are doing "terrorism", exactly, but it most certainly can be considered an act of war.  Look up why America has a Navy and a Marine Corps.  It was this kind of bullshit, but about two centuries ago, and a little more organized.
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Emperor_Jonathan

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #71 on: April 11, 2009, 01:01:53 am »

I say it's 'terrorism,' as these pirates instill fear into the ships crew, when they attack.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #72 on: April 11, 2009, 01:03:05 am »

They need to use those new railguns they have.  That'll show those pirates who's king o' the seven seas.
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Aqizzar

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #73 on: April 11, 2009, 01:24:55 am »

I say it's 'terrorism,' as these pirates instill fear into the ships crew, when they attack.

This might be news, but every hostile act taken by any robber is meant to instill fear.  "Terrorism" is frightening hostile action taken for a larger purpose.  At least as the people who make these decisions define it - these guys don't have any goals.

I actually do believe what Cthulhu probably said in jest - pirates have a job, to steal things, and the nazy's job is to stop them.  That there's violence involved and no formalization doesn't make it any less of a real job.  As others have pointed out, Somalia is one of the roughest, poorest countries on Earth with no law or authorities to speak of, jutting into the middle of a major shipping lane, and home to a bunch of desperate, battle-hardened militiamen with guns and boats.  How many other outcomes could there be?  Accepting the logic of the situation doesn't imply sympathy for the criminals.  The "toxic waste and illegal fishing" aspect is news to me, but it's just one more reason for these guys to be angry and violent.

This whole ransom thing is actually a pretty new development, and it's a sign of how utterly ineffective proactive anti-piracy efforts have been.  Successful criminals don't boast about their activities, they don't announce their intentions or how they act.  Unless they have no reason to think law enforcement can stop them.  For decades piracy was a lot more like you'd expect - boarders would storm onto the ship, grab up all the valuables and cashbox, and run.  Or they would hijack the ship outright, take it back to port, and sell the hull and all the cargo.  Ransoming requires announcing to the world who you are, where you are, and what you're doing, and it's only happening now because the Somali gangs have twigged to the fact that there's just nowhere near enough navy assets to track them down.

It's worth pointing out that ransom works just fine too, and it's already evolved a sense of... decorum.  Pirates show up, if they can get on board they call the home company, a few days later a sack of money arrives by parachute, and everyone goes home safe and secure.  In the scope of international shipping, a few million dollars here and there for ransom can be written off as an operating expense.  It's only when the pirates, crew, or navy bollocks the whole thing up that anyone takes notice.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 01:29:09 am by Aqizzar »
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cowofdoom78963

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Re: Piracy. No, not your Torrents, I mean REAL piracy.
« Reply #74 on: April 11, 2009, 01:30:14 am »

Corporations are considered people under the law.
Pirates are criminals, what the law considers isent an issue. That is unless you worship the law and are arguing on moral grounds...

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The Golden Age of Pirates* is over, they aren't the romanticised Pirates as they were before. They're terrorists, pure and simple. Using Speedboats, AK-47s RPGs and other modern day weaponry.
This changes what?

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I bet if it was closer to home, you wouldn't be so accepting!
Thats the thing, its overseas. They cant pirate elsewhere or they would be blasted apart by enormous armies.

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I say it's 'terrorism,' as these pirates instill fear into the ships crew, when they attack.
Yes the police are terrorists too, as they instill fear into people to get their way as well.

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I think I could get behind cowofdoom's logic, the more I think about it.  Yes, pirates pirate, that's their job.  The Navy's job is to kill them.  It all works out fine.
The pirates plunder the merchants, the merchants get help from the Navy to kill the pirates. The problem though is if the Navy goes all out and kills off the pirates...

Although I hope the Navy doesnt overpower the pirates, they probably will one day. They seem to be trying something now. At least I heard a guy in a article proclaim "I am not optimistic for the future"

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the workers on the boats that get attacked aren't "rich snobs", they're working-class blue-collar average Joes
Its not they're money, of course the buisiness owner isent going to sail all his ships from a remote location. Someone has to be on the ship.

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Accepting the logic of the situation doesn't imply sympathy for the criminals.
yeah! Lets go kick em while their down!
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