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[Bromor Neckbeard]

First, a few links, for those not aware of the current situation.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/10/somalia.u.s.ship/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/09/wilkerson.pirates/index.html#cnnSTCText
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/29/pirates/index.html#cnnSTCText

This sort of crap was actually a huge contribution to America building a Navy in the first place.  The phrase "to the shores of Tripoli" in the Marines' Hymn is a reference to it.

I'm wondering why on Earth that a ragtag band of Somalis think that they can take American ships without hideous repercussions.  They KNOW that we're the freakin' Empire, if you look at us cross-eyed we'll invade you AND the country next to you just for good measure.  There's entire cities in Somalia whose entire existence is devoted to supporting their piracy industry.  Coincidentally, we just so happen to have in the area a squadron of warships with the ability to hit the license plate of a car with a shell from over the horizon.  I'm wondering why we haven't commenced shelling a couple of those pirate villages yet, or sank a couple of "mother ships".

Now, your thoughts?  What sort of action is called for here?  Do we level a couple of pirate towns, kill a few thousand women and children and a few hundred pirates, or should we just sink a couple of converted cargo ships and call it a day, or what?

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

Aha~
At last, assymetrical oceanic warfare...
Let's see how effective your conventional weapons... against them!

(Reason: Not Guilty before being proven otherwise?) my take on on this.

[Cthulhu]

We need to build crazy blade-covered robots and send them onto the ships to eviscerate the pirates.

[Aqizzar]

Yar far fiddledy dee and all that.  Big serious post to follow.

Coincidentally, we just so happen to have in the area a squadron of warships with the ability to hit the license plate of a car with a shell from over the horizon.  I'm wondering why we haven't commenced shelling a couple of those pirate villages yet, or sank a couple of "mother ships".

One, these "mother ships" are all but non-existent, and double in the on season as fishing carriers.  That's what most of these pirates are, fishermen when the fishing is good, pirates when it's not, hence all the boats.

Two, we're not shelling any "pirate villages", because the United States, contrary to either conspiracy theorists or supremacists, is not in the business of lobbing military ordinance at any group of people that happen to be near someone who's suspected of what is really criminality and not an act of war.

Why do these pirates think they can get away with it?  Because they almost always do.  In this one instance, the ship's crew was able to get a message out, overpower the boarders, and stall until help arrived.  Usually these hijack/ransom jobs go exactly as planned for the pirates.  The one major difference here was that the ship was an actual American merchantman and not an independent vessel registered to Panama or Liberia like most of them are.  Somali pirates are unlikely to notice the distinction.

I don't know if your closer was a joke or not, but I hope to god you realize both the impracticality of just shooting anyone who might have pirates among them, and the fact that such a move would accomplish nothing.  Arming the actual vessels is a far more viable option, especially with non-lethal tools - there was a case a few years back where a passenger ship fended off an attack in the same area with those neato directed sound projectors.

Ultimately though, piracy will continue as long as it's a viable business strategy.  The answer lies in a combination of making the targets themselves harder to attack, and in (yeah laugh it up) improving the economy of the area so that violent criminality isn't so obvious an option.  In Somalia, yeah I know I know.

By the way, there's been rampant piracy around both the coast of Africa and especially the Straits of Malacca for more than forty years.  Funny what kind of ethnocentrism it takes to grab people's attention.  God forbid a ship registered in America, or a tankerful of oil, happens to be the victim of a systemic world problem instead of somebody else's stuff and lives.

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

Well...
I live in the vicinity of Malacca Strait.
And yeah, the piracies are ... numerous.

Also, the pirates are those who are heretics. So, if you want to kill them, [perhaps] we'll support you guys. (Who am I to speak like this?)

[Bromor Neckbeard]

we're not shelling any "pirate villages", because the United States, contrary to either conspiracy theorists or supremacists, is not in the business of lobbing military ordinance at any group of people that happen to be near someone who's suspected of what is really criminality and not an act of war.

It seems like every day I see a new article about how some camel herder got blown up in Iraq because his son's wedding ceremony involved the firing of AK-47s, and some American soldiers quite reasonably assumed that it was "insurgent" activity and responded with overwhelming firepower.  I personally know a guy who was involved in an incident where a wedding party that got a little out of hand was ended with a high-explosive tank shell.  I'm a patriotic, moderate American citizen, and even I recognize that overwhelming firepower and "collateral damage" (a disgusting euphemism if ever there was one) is how we do things.  We try to be less brutal than the Soviet Union was, but we DO have a disturbing penchant for killing brown dudes.

I don't know if your closer was a joke or not, but I hope to god you realize both the impracticality of just shooting anyone who might have pirates among them, and the fact that such a move would accomplish nothing.

Well, it was a joke, but I meant it at the same time.  There ARE entire towns along the Somalian coast whose existence is devoted to supporting Somalia's piracy industry.  I read an article about it a few months back, I could probably find it on CNN's website if you don't feel like digging for it.  They have separate restaurants and living quarters for pirates and hostages, and all kinds of piracy support industry.  And, yes, I AM saying that in my admittedly undereducated opinion, levelling a couple of those towns is a viable strategy.

Ultimately though, piracy will continue as long as it's a viable business strategy.  The answer lies in a combination of making the targets themselves harder to attack, and in (yeah laugh it up) improving the economy of the area so that violent criminality isn't so obvious an option.  In Somalia, yeah I know I know.

By the way, there's been rampant piracy around both the coast of Africa and especially the Straits of Malacca for more than forty years.  Funny what kind of ethnocentrism it takes to grab people's attention.  God forbid a ship registered in America, or a tankerful of oil, happens to be the victim of a systemic world problem instead of somebody else's stuff and lives.

That's why I'm seriously suggesting leveling a couple of towns.  If we try to fix Somalia's economy, we'll just have a repeat of the whole "Black Hawk Down" fiasco from the Clinton era.  Yes, right now, the risks of piracy are acceptable to the pirates, because most of the time, the companies affected pay out the million-dollar ransom.  However, if part-time pirates have to bury a couple thousand of their dead children and relatives, if they come home to a pile of smoking rubble where there used to be a thriving port town, they might re-think the economic viability of piracy when the fish aren't biting.  If we use our typical "blow the shit out of it" strategy here, suddenly piracy will NOT be such a viable business strategy.  Yeah, you COULD get a million-dollar ransom, you could also have a cruiser follow you home and destroy everybody you ever knew.  It's an ugly solution, but I don't see another way of handling it.  We can't arm every cargo ship that passes by there with enough weapons to fight off twenty dudes armed with AK-47s and RPGs.  Sound projectors and the like are humane, nonlethal, and terribly cool, but I don't think they're gonna outfight determined dudes with rocket launchers.

[Mephisto]

I find that story interesting. The article I read said the pirates asked news agencies to pray for them. Dumbasses.

Okay, I'll pray for them. I pray that nothing good ever comes their way. I pray that they fall out of the life boat they're in and drown or get eaten by sharks, whichever is more painful, leaving the hostage as the only one still alive.

[Aqizzar]

Alright, I throw in my last points.

Yes, I know the American military sometimes takes a cavalier attitude (to say the least) about responding to possible threats.  That doesn't make it right, or effecive, and it's specifically frowned upon.  The navy is doing the right thing - you hear about the wedding crashers in Iraq precisely because that kind of shit isn't supposed to happen.

As for bombing pirate villages or whatever, I say it won't accomplish anything, because it never really does.  For starters, the navy has guided ordinance, not death-rays.  Throwing shells at shanty-towns usually just turns piles of rubble into smaller piles of rubble, maybe killing a person or three unless you want to turn loose the five million dollar cruise missiles.  That's a small, quiet part of why the military doesn't usually intervene in these hostage takings - our military apparatus is such a ponderous money hole that it's usually cheaper to just pay the ransom.

Besides, if there's one lesson to be taken from every asymmetrical war America, or Britain, or Russia, or any larger power has fought, it's that it's just not possible to bomb away a systemic problem.  You can kill individuals, you can't kill people.  Throwing firepower at poor, angry, desperate people just makes them more poor, angry, and desperate, and as long as they are poor, angry, and desperate this will be the outcome.

[inaluct]

We need another Anglo-Zanzibar War. Back then, the British just shelled stuff and ended the war in 40 minutes. We need to beat their record with Zimbabwe.

First, a crazed, screaming declaration of war. Ten minutes later, after it's had time to incite some concern, we carpet bomb every populated area of their country with nukes. All at once, in one sheet of nuclear fire, their country and their lives cease to exist. YYYEEEEEAAAHH

[DJ]

You can kill individuals, you can't kill people.  Throwing firepower at poor, angry, desperate people just makes them more poor, angry, and desperate, and as long as they are poor, angry, and desperate this will be the outcome.

Isn't this how USA won against Native Americans?

[TheNewerMartianEmperor]

We need another Anglo-Zanzibar War. Back then, the British just shelled stuff and ended the war in 40 minutes. We need to beat their record with Zimbabwe.

First, a crazed, screaming declaration of war. Ten minutes later, after it's had time to incite some concern, we carpet bomb every populated area of their country with nukes. All at once, in one sheet of nuclear fire, their country and their lives cease to exist. YYYEEEEEAAAHH

I like that option on the basis that it is most likely to cause a global catastrophe.

[Servant Corps]

We need another Anglo-Zanzibar War. Back then, the British just shelled stuff and ended the war in 40 minutes. We need to beat their record with Zimbabwe.

First, a crazed, screaming declaration of war. Ten minutes later, after it's had time to incite some concern, we carpet bomb every populated area of their country with nukes. All at once, in one sheet of nuclear fire, their country and their lives cease to exist. YYYEEEEEAAAHH

Um. How does this have anything to do with piracy?

In any event, these pirates are here to stop illegal fishing. People are illegally fishing in Somailia waters, trying to steal fishes that belong rightfully to Somailia. This is bad. This is very bad. And this is why these pirates arrive, in order to hunt down fleets that are engaging in illegal fishing and bring them to justice. This is an economic war, between people wanting to keep their property, and people wanting to steal from Somailia. If anything, the LCS should set up shop in Somailia and assist these pirates in stopping this sort of Conservative illegal fishing.

If you want to deal with piracy, you have to address its roots. Crack down on illegal fishermen.

[inaluct]

Just watch. If we kill Zimbabwe, the pirates will be like "Oh shit, we might be next," and then they'll stop being pirates.

[Org]

I actually did a research project on the Somalian Pirates.
They are crazy.
I think one group tool a supertanker, and another took a ship with tanks and all that on it.

[Servant Corps]

inaluct: Considering the fact that the US intervened in Somailia in the 1990's and decided to get out quickly...yeah, no. Besides, destroying Zimbabwe will just lead to more instability. Haven't we learnt anything from the Iraq War?

Eh.

Crack down on illegal fishing. Take away the ideological backing behind the pirates. (Also, according to my research, illegal toxic dumping also occurs. The pirates also call themseleves "coast guards", protecting Somailia's coast from these criminals.)