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Author Topic: Wagon trade pets turning up dead  (Read 1550 times)

Blakmane

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Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« on: April 04, 2009, 07:13:56 am »
Hi guys,

I'm stumped- i'm just about ready to release my dark dwarves mod, but for some reason my new modded race (deep elves) only bring dead animals in cages, rather than the live animals that elves usually bring with the ANY_PET tag. Any idea why this is?

Thanks

-Blak
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BigFatDwarf

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2009, 07:45:05 am »
Hmmm...mind posting the creature and entity raw of the darkies?

Will be easier to help then. Really.
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Quote from: James.Denholm on July 24, 2010, 08:41:14 am
Quote from: Thief^ on July 24, 2010, 04:39:15 am
I loaded up my save in the new version, spent a minute trying to find my archery range before figuring it was the room with Xs down both sides: bins of ammo and archery targets.
Urist McCrossbower cancells practice crossbowery: Unsure of which end of the room to shoot at.

Lord Dullard

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2009, 07:47:55 am »
What locations have you tried settling in?

If the traders go through a frozen terrain on their way to your site, I believe this can cause all the caged animals to die. Someone else back me up on this, though; I'm not sure if it's just something I'd heard or if it's known fact.
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BigFatDwarf

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2009, 07:52:22 am »
??? Yeah, but wouldn't elves bring dead ones too then?  ???
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Quote from: James.Denholm on July 24, 2010, 08:41:14 am
Quote from: Thief^ on July 24, 2010, 04:39:15 am
I loaded up my save in the new version, spent a minute trying to find my archery range before figuring it was the room with Xs down both sides: bins of ammo and archery targets.
Urist McCrossbower cancells practice crossbowery: Unsure of which end of the room to shoot at.

kotekzot

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2009, 07:56:46 am »
i think it's fitting.
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Quote from: Guy Montag on April 16, 2009, 04:45:30 pm
Bro, your like... thinking like a square man... its like, the WHOLE lamprey is just like, one big NECK dude, you know? its like hahahaha! dude protect the trees though, seriously. *inhale*... anyways... you like, want this dead black bear, bro?

Blakmane

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2009, 08:18:21 am »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There's the entity file. I just added at peace with wildlife and regenned in case they were murdering their own pets, but it hasn't made any difference.

Oh and, with the latest caravan, they brought live COMMON_DOMESTIC pets, but all other pets are dead. This is sad indeed, as the guild representative offers all kinds of radical beasties for trade (and brings them, albeit dead). This suggests it has nothing to do with climate however (i'm on half temperate/cold)

My fellow dark dwarves offer EVIL and non COMMON_DOMESTIC pets on embark if their civ has access to them (I embarked with ice wolves, who are not common domestic). Yet to see if they bring these as well in the caravans, but they certainly don't offer them in the trade agreements.

The climate is temperate, verging on cold.   
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BigFatDwarf

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2009, 08:31:55 am »
Try changing ethics, like kill animal to UNTHINKABLE.

Ethics can change many things, like that you can bring things like Human Meat upon embark.
Could work for this little problem too.
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Quote from: James.Denholm on July 24, 2010, 08:41:14 am
Quote from: Thief^ on July 24, 2010, 04:39:15 am
I loaded up my save in the new version, spent a minute trying to find my archery range before figuring it was the room with Xs down both sides: bins of ammo and archery targets.
Urist McCrossbower cancells practice crossbowery: Unsure of which end of the room to shoot at.

Lord Dullard

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2009, 08:41:47 am »
Quote from: Blakmane on April 04, 2009, 08:18:21 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There's the entity file. I just added at peace with wildlife and regenned in case they were murdering their own pets, but it hasn't made any difference.

Oh and, with the latest caravan, they brought live COMMON_DOMESTIC pets, but all other pets are dead. This is sad indeed, as the guild representative offers all kinds of radical beasties for trade (and brings them, albeit dead). This suggests it has nothing to do with climate however (i'm on half temperate/cold)

My fellow dark dwarves offer EVIL and non COMMON_DOMESTIC pets on embark if their civ has access to them (I embarked with ice wolves, who are not common domestic). Yet to see if they bring these as well in the caravans, but they certainly don't offer them in the trade agreements.

The climate is temperate, verging on cold.   

Your particular climate is not that important. What's important is whether the traders cross any freezing climates on their way to your area.

Try genning a test world and embarking somewhere else, preferably in a warm/hot climate. Wait for them to show up and see if the pets are still dead.
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FoboslC

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2009, 09:47:21 am »
Quote from: Lord Dullard on April 04, 2009, 08:41:47 am
Your particular climate is not that important. What's important is whether the traders cross any freezing climates on their way to your area.

Try genning a test world and embarking somewhere else, preferably in a warm/hot climate. Wait for them to show up and see if the pets are still dead.

Your logic is flawed. World outside of your fortress do not 'exist' Caravnds dont embark fro the city, they dont cross any terrain - they just spawn at the edge of the location.
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Heron TSG

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2009, 10:38:03 am »
Quote from: FoboslC on April 04, 2009, 09:47:21 am
Quote from: Lord Dullard on April 04, 2009, 08:41:47 am
Your particular climate is not that important. What's important is whether the traders cross any freezing climates on their way to your area.

Try genning a test world and embarking somewhere else, preferably in a warm/hot climate. Wait for them to show up and see if the pets are still dead.

Your logic is flawed. World outside of your fortress do not 'exist' Caravnds dont embark fro the city, they dont cross any terrain - they just spawn at the edge of the location.

then explain how they don't show up when you're on an island.  :P
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Smew

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2009, 10:43:32 am »
Not to mention people have found caravans in towns(read, towns, not fortresses) shortly after abandoning a fortress that had a caravan visit recently.
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Lord Dullard

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2009, 10:49:16 am »
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=8279.0

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=32238.0

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=8915.0

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=8534.0

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=20962.0

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I suspect that the cages have dead animals in them. This happens when caravans have to travel through cold areas to reach your fortress; the animals don't survive the trip. You should be able to deal with them via the butcher.

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That's been around for some time, yeah.   Merchants don't consider what a long trek through freezing territory will do to those tigers they picked up, and so they'll happily cart them over tundra and glaciers, without giving them so much as a blanket.


Elves are the worst in this respect.   They always bring so many exotic animals, nonw of which are suited to cold climates, and so they all freeze to death.  And then those holier-than-thou elves, who will turn away at the thought of someone so horribly fiendish that they'd make an earring out of some dead goat's bones, will try to sell you an elephantsicle and see nothing wrong with it.

Hm..

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Your logic is flawed.

Sorry, Spock. My logic looks just fine.
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i2amroy

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2009, 12:29:15 pm »
Yeah, if a particular civ crosses freezing terrain then animals can die in the journey. If elves and deep elves are coming to you from different directions, than one could have animals freezing and the other could have them survive fine.
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FoboslC

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2009, 06:35:36 pm »
*sighs*
It was stated multip,le times, even by Toady One. THey.DOnt. Cross. Anything. They. Dont go. On islands. because. They. DOnt. Have. Acess to it. IF. You. Build. A. bridge. To. Edge. Of. A . Map -> Thgye WILL be there, even if there is still 4000 tiles between the bridhe and mainland. World. Is. Frozen. Outside. Of. Your. Fortress.
-edit-
Animals are dead because of fatal wounds. That happens pretty often.
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Blakmane

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Re: Wagon trade pets turning up dead
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2009, 07:08:34 pm »
wow above post is a grammatical nightmare =/

Back on topic: Travelling through a freezing climate makes no sense because caravans currently do not actually travel outside of your immediate map, as said above (and can be seen in the dev log). Also, if you had read my second post, you would've seen that all the domestic animals on the caravans are surviving just fine (including 0 layering hellhounds).

Fatal wounds: i'd buy this, but 100% of the time? I've been getting 10 or more dead corpses in each transfer, and have not yet recieved a single live non-domestic animal from the deep elves, 3 trades in. Also, why would this only effect the deep elves and not the elves? I have not seen a dead caged animal from the elves once so far.

--- I'm going to test out a few of these hypotheses. I'll make a world with no cold climates whatsoever and see if animals still turn up dead (maybe domestic animals have some kind of protection). I'll also try modifying the ethics, in case that is the problem.
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