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[Aqizzar]

I'm once again lodging my complaint against the pricing structure.  It resembles a manufacturer's catalog of brand new weapons.  This is applicable for rarely available things like quality sniper rifles or explosives, but remember that used guns are one of the most abundant commodities in the world.  The availability of weapons versus the power of law enforcement is also a huge determining factor.  An AK-47 would cost a few hundred dollars in America - in most of Africa you get one in barter for a case of beer.  An RPG-7 round is completely unavailable in most of the world - in Afghanistan they trade for the local equivalent of a couple bucks.

Also, the SMG damages are a bit unrealistic.  I know I warned against letting exactly this discussion happen, but this doesn't have anything to do with specific models.  SMGs use the same rounds and barrel lengths as pistols, they're even referred to as Machine Pistols, because that's what they are.  Ergo, it would stand to reason that they can cause the same amount of "damage" in whatever way that relates.

Hey Aqizzar, I wanna burn the world! Can I join you?

Sure, I'll take you.  Just remember, first rape and pillage, then burn.

[Vaiolis]

by others, I mean that if you have 1 point in hacker, cracker, or programming, you start with the computer. However, you must have 2 points in engineer to get it. If you only have 1 point in engineer, and do not have cracker, hacker, or programmer, you don't start with it.

And, the lockpicks are given to the cracker because the cracker's main job is to get through security measures, whether it be an electronic camera system, or a locked door. And we're giving the cracker those skills because, if we made lockpicking a separate specialization, odds are neither lockpicking nor cracking would get a large number of uses, but together they should get just about as much use as the other skills, so it balances out.

@Aqizzar, what you're saying is true. I am listing off the prices of those weapons, new. Sure, I could mention every possible price they could be, but it seems like a waste of space. The listed price is not the exact price every existing gun will go for, it's just the base price. And with the varying costs of weapons depending on placement in the world, it seems overkill. We're not trying to make a gun simulation here, not by any means, we're just putting in what we feel is necessary for the game to be fluid. We'll track the average prices of weapons depending on their quality and upgrades, but mapping out their costs in different areas is not necessary, and probably wouldn't really add much to the game. Cheaper prices versus expensive will be found with under-the-table dealers and such, but not on your position in the world.

On the SMG, however, I hadn't realized that it used the same type of round, so I'll edit that in.

[Aqizzar]

Fair enough on prices.  I was worried that weapons would have some magical value that they traded for no matter what, but I should have given you two more credit than that.  Putting up the indexed, fresh-minted prices does make the most sense.

So, how about some vehicle ideas?  Post your metrics for those, so we can start spamming suggestions.

[Frelock]

Hey, Cheetar and Fobos, mind if I join your squad?  I have a slight modification to my character sheet, though.

So basically a sniper still, but with the added persuasion for dealing with people.  Also switched targeting to accuracy, so I can kill the politician, but not the tank.

Name: Frelock
Trait: Perceptive
Weapon Specialization: Sniper Rifle
Combat Skills:
 - Accuracy 2
 - Spotting
 - Stealth
Non-Combat Skills:
 - Persuasion

[Golgath]

Fair enough on prices.  I was worried that weapons would have some magical value that they traded for no matter what, but I should have given you two more credit than that.  Putting up the indexed, fresh-minted prices does make the most sense.

So, how about some vehicle ideas?  Post your metrics for those, so we can start spamming suggestions.

Appreciate the praise, Aqizzar.  Anyway, as far as vehicles...  We're probably going to genericize that as well.  We haven't put much thought into it other then they will be included, and you can steal anything that you can drive off with, whether bicycle or, as you put it, SCUD launcher.  Ideally the vehicles will have stats like...  Well...  Everything else.  We're quite willing to hear people's opinions on vehicles.  I'm thinking fuel and such will be tracked, especially for the larger vehicles.  That armored vehicle isn't so handy while the fuel tank is empty. 

Feel free to suggest whatever you like.  The more reasonable stuff that works with what we're planning will probably get worked in somehow...  I'm thinking at the moment we're just going to have basic vehicles types such as pickups, SUVs, Jeeps, buggies, that sort of thing..  From those, you can use skills to upgrade them in certain ways, which can be done with most other objects, as well.  Before I ramble on about mechanics we'd like you to discover yourself, I'm going to shut up. 

[Gunner-Chan]

SMGs use the same rounds and barrel lengths as pistols, they're even referred to as Machine Pistols, because that's what they are.  Ergo, it would stand to reason that they can cause the same amount of "damage" in whatever way that relates.

Not entirely true, I know at least the PPSH-41 has special rounds with more powder to increase velocity and penetrating power. There was an incident where some of those ended up on the surplus market and blew apart some peoples tt-33s and CZ-52s.

[Luke_Prowler]

Minigun
Chainsaw

Just throwing that out there.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Name: Luke
Trait: Dexterity
Weapon Specialization: Heavy Weapons
Combat Skills:
Driving
Accuracy
Demolitions
Non-Combat Skills:
Mechanics
Engineering

Starting equipment:
Pump-Action Shotgun
Hobbyist's Mechanical Kit
Light Kevlar Vest

[Aqizzar]

Not entirely true, I know at least the PPSH-41 has special rounds with more powder to increase velocity and penetrating power. There was an incident where some of those ended up on the surplus market and blew apart some peoples tt-33s and CZ-52s.

Interesting to know.  However, I was just speaking in general, as the system is.  And I think there should be more of each weapon type for just this reason.  I'll come up with some weapons to suggest soon.

Also, I was thinking of weapon mods like clip extenders, and noted that the example guns have clip sizes.  Is the game going to be at a scale where shot-tracking is that important?  Because a shooter-by-posting would bog down in a huge hurry.  If gameplay actually takes place at a firefight by firefight, or engagement by engagement level, clip size could just be rolled into Fire Rate, since you can shoot more when you spend less time reloading.

[Golgath]

Also, I was thinking of weapon mods like clip extenders, and noted that the example guns have clip sizes.  Is the game going to be at a scale where shot-tracking is that important?  Because a shooter-by-posting would bog down in a huge hurry.  If gameplay actually takes place at a firefight by firefight, or engagement by engagement level, clip size could just be rolled into Fire Rate, since you can shoot more when you spend less time reloading.

We really need to get into it to decide what will work best, but we won't be tracking each individual bullet, chances are.  I can get back to you on it when Vaiolis has returned, since the bigger decisions we work together on.

[FoboslC]

by others, I mean that if you have 1 point in hacker, cracker, or programming, you start with the computer. However, you must have 2 points in engineer to get it. If you only have 1 point in engineer, and do not have cracker, hacker, or programmer, you don't start with it.

YOu are not making any sense. So If I have atl east on point in any of those skills, i WILL start with it, but I MUST have 2 point in engineer to GET it?
---
Frelock, sounds like a nice idea. Cheeter, what do You think.
It also looks like our squad will be some covert-ops, hehe

[Frelock]

Covert-ops would definitely work out nice, though we should probably get a heavy-weapons guy, like Luke, just in case.

And it makes perfect sense, if you know basic logic.

if (1 point hacker OR 1 point cracker OR 1 point programmer OR 2 points engineer) then (start with a computer)

[FoboslC]

by others, I mean that if you have 1 point in hacker, cracker, or programming, you start with the computer. However, you must have 2 points in engineer to get it.

Read it over and over until you understand it.

[Boksi]

So, what are the squads exactly? I'm confused as to who's in which and I'd like to be in one.

[Golgath]

So, what are the squads exactly? I'm confused as to who's in which and I'd like to be in one.

Players organize themselves into squads of up to four people.  These squads generally do things together, and stick close.  Different squads can also work together if they like, but those in your squad are likely the ones you're going to trust the most.

EDIT: Or, at least, you should trust them. 

[Frelock]

Read it over and over until you understand it.

I understand where your confusion is.  You see it as

if [(1 point hacker OR 1 point cracker OR 1 point programmer) AND 2 points engineer] then (start with a computer)

and that statement could be interpreted that way, given how wonderfully clear English is.  However, it would make the first sentence logically false (as I could have a point in hacker and not get the computer, which falsifies the if-then statement).  So, logically, my first analysis of the situation has to be correct, given the basic logic of the sentences.

On an unrelated note, we should come up with names for our squads, and post who's in each one.