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[irmo]

The current problem with Vomit attacks as it is, is that all Material breaths are Cones (so to speak) that deal damage only by temperature.

And also that they're stupid.

So for this we need to expand a few things so that we don't make projectile vomit useless.
Note: Breath is a mechanical term. Laser beams could function under the breath system

Among all the other problems with this idea, lasers were invented post-1400.

1) We need to expand material breath projection types to include single projectiles, lines, and other kinds of range and editing.
2) We need to expand materials to include possibly acids

And then someone will want lakes of acid, and then pumps and channels of flowing acid, and then reactions between acid and certain types of stone, acid and booze, acid and water, acid and magma, acid and flesh, different types of acid, "here's this thing I heard about in chemistry class, why isn't it in the game yet"...

Listen, guys. You requested more diversity in materials and we got You Have Discovered Microcline! Please think about how this affects the experience of playing the game before supporting it.

3) We need to include Liquid impact

You don't want the game trying to simulate fluid jets. Trust me on this.

4) We need to include storage for material within the creature (Toady is working on it)
5) Possible Smell/happyness system? Certainly being covered in vomit isn't a very pleasant experience.

We have that, it's called miasma.

Yes I realise this was done April 1st... but it isn't silly enough to be shrugged as an April Fools joke.

Yes, it is.

[Neonivek]

We have that, it's called miasma

Miasma is a bit more involved then simply just being smelly smelly... Though the Material breaths can't produce Miasma anyhow.

It would be needed for Skunks and other creatures that do attack opponents through smelly projections that can be basically harmless otherwise.

And also that they're stupid

They also exist in real life. Though I am working more for the framework to make them possible then for them to be included in vanilla. Especially since it can be easily expanded to other areas that would be "Less silly" such as hurling poisonous barbs and poisonous spit that isn't a huge cone.

You don't want the game trying to simulate fluid jets. Trust me on this

Naw it is more that you want the game to recognise that for a Material Breath stream to recognise possible Force. So you could add that it has a certain force, it adds the material density for the liquid... then it does damage.

We definately don't need this to be handled in the Physics in all likelyness with a few exceptions.

Among all the other problems with this idea, lasers were invented post-1400

It was an example that basically even though we are saying "breath" that it doesn't involve breathing.

Yes, it is

I don't really know why you think the idea is all that stupid... I agree it is stupid for every creature to have (especially trolls) but it works for dedicated creatures.

Ignoring all that... Even if not included in Vanilla... that ability to ADD IT properly provides a proper framework for other attacks that are definately not stupid.

And then someone will want lakes of acid, and then pumps and channels of flowing acid, and then reactions between acid and certain types of stone, acid and booze, acid and water, acid and magma, acid and flesh, different types of acid, "here's this thing I heard about in chemistry class, why isn't it in the game yet"...

People already want it. So it doesn't really change anything.

[Footkerchief]

The current problem with Vomit attacks as it is, is that all Material breaths are Cones (so to speak) that deal damage only by temperature.

So for this we need to expand a few things so that we don't make projectile vomit useless.
Note: Breath is a mechanical term. Laser beams could function under the breath system

1) We need to expand material breath projection types to include single projectiles, lines, and other kinds of range and editing.

Wait, what?  The upcoming material "breaths" aren't just cones.  They include solid projectiles (which Toady described as being pretty similar to a thrown stone) and liquid glob projectiles.

2) We need to expand materials to include possibly acids

The new venom/poison effects will make it very easy to create a material that gives creatures acid-like contact burns.

3) We need to include Liquid impact

Liquid glob impacts are being handled -- they'll splatter stuff onto whatever they hit.

You'll have everything you need to create a creature that spits globs of corrosive vomit at its opponents.

Also, irmo, what's with the hostility? 

[Neonivek]

The upcoming material "breaths" aren't just cones.  They include solid projectiles (which Toady described as being pretty similar to a thrown stone) and liquid glob projectiles

Who run under the same Material Breath system which are all "Cones" so to speak.

Cone is the "Shape" of the projections and Solids and Liquid globs are simply what is being projected.

The new venom/poison effects will make it very easy to create a material that gives creatures acid-like contact burns

Yeah probably it would probably be the way to go. The issue though is that it could go insane with creatures having reactions to it far beyond what is reasonable. (For example, melting their faces off when it is only supposed to be a mild irritation)

Though this point I agree with.

Liquid glob impacts are being handled -- they'll splatter stuff onto whatever they hit.

It is rather limited in its current form. Basically you get "Wet" and that is it. You cannot for example harm someone with the force of the impact unless it is a solid (in which there is no indication of force modifiers so it could do a uniform damage based on the weight of the material)

Though Toady is aware of this and he has put it on the shelf (If I remember correctly). So Id think it would come into play a bit further down the road.

[Footkerchief]

Who run under the same Material Breath system which are all "Cones" so to speak.

Cone is the "Shape" of the projections and Solids and Liquid globs are simply what is being projected.

I really don't follow what you're saying here.  They are actual single projectiles, like thrown items.  They aren't cones or a cone-shaped cloud of projectiles.  Cones are just for the dust/mist/gas attacks, not the glob attacks.

It is rather limited in its current form. Basically you get "Wet" and that is it. You cannot for example harm someone with the force of the impact unless it is a solid (in which there is no indication of force modifiers so it could do a uniform damage based on the weight of the material)

And you can change the weight of the material, so isn't that enough for now?  Obviously later we'll be able to mod projectile speed, "rate of fire" etc.  As for liquids, it doesn't make any sense for a liquid glob to do much kinetic damage anyway.

[Neonivek]

As for liquids, it doesn't make any sense for a liquid glob to do much kinetic damage anyway

Hurl a 1-foot radius Mercury blob 80 MPH at someone's head Id think they would be knocked out if not dead.

Liquids require quite a bit of force to rip things to shreds but it is hardly impossible.

It's not a cone-shaped cloud of projectiles

But isn't that how "Dragon Breath" functions? There isn't much to go on to suggest that they are different from Dragon Breath except with differing materials.

[Footkerchief]

But isn't that how "Dragon Breath" functions? There isn't much to go on to suggest that they are different from Dragon Breath except with differing materials.

It's NOT like dragon breath, it's completely new and different.  I'll quote this AGAIN, note the bolded part:

Solid breath can take the form of a forward moving dust puff that accidentally knocks people out due to some cave-in code.  When I fix that, KOs make or may not be a parameter.  Solid breath can also take the form of a solid glob (a small one right now) that is hurled like a stone.  It might as well be a thrown stone of the solid.  Solid breath can also be an undirected dust puff (also accidental knockouts).

Right now it's something simple like
[MATERIAL_BREATH_ATTACK:<mat tokens>:<breath attack form>]
where breath attack form is one of eight choices: powder/liquid/gas forward puff, powder/liquid/gas undirected cloud, liquid glob, solid glob.

It's all very lackluster, but quite easily improved (bp links, numbers, etc.), and it works for now.  Aside from the accidental KOs.  You can have as many of those as you like, and they'll pick one out at random when they are fighting (they'll use forward puffs and projectiles at a distance, and add in undirected clouds when in close quarters).

[Neonivek]

I see. So we got the Framework (except for Stream) we just lack the momentum and something better then using Venom would also be good.

Though it would certainly be interesting. A Stream of Vomit that melts off your skin.

Though it would be a specific kind of vomit I guess.

Also the "Smelly" to be added. Since Miasma will likely in the future carry diseases.

So of the 5 lets see what remains
1) We need to expand material breath projection types to include streams, lines, and other kinds of range and editing in addition to what we already have.
2) We need to expand materials to include possibly acids
3) We need to include Liquid impact
4) We need to include storage for material within the creature (Toady is working on it)
5) Possible Smell/happyness system? Certainly being covered in vomit isn't a very pleasant experience

Hmm all of them remain though some need to be altered. Which to save space Ill just edit the above.