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[Wild Goose]

I was just thinking, it would be kinda cool to have a sort of 'win' condition for Dwarf Fort.  Once your population reaches past a certain point, maybe after you get a Duke or King, you get the "New Fortress" option or something in addition to the "Abandon Fortress" option.
The difference being, you get to leave your old Fortress on the map, maybe visit it in Adventure Mode.  Leave another sort of mark on the world.  And it's totally optional, so you can still have plenty of 'fun' if you like.
It just seems a shame to waste a fairly secure and stable Fortress.

Heck, you could even make it so you could select seven dwarves from the old site, with some equipment...
Maybe make the new Fortress option available after building a Wagon and adding a certain amount of supplies?

Heh, and you can have the joy of eventually spreading Dwarf Fortresses across the world, as is right and proper.

[Aquillion]

Well, this sort of existed before, in the 2d version.  But only insofar as 'losing is fun', really...

(The game's mandates and noble structure would, if the player didn't forcefully struggle against it, eventually guide them up the steps until they get the king; the king in turn would demand that the player mine further and further east until Adamant was struck; and once Adamant is struck, he would demand that it be mined until the fortress dies.  Well, mining even one piece of adamant would doom the fortress eventually, but he'd demand more and more.)

...hmm, that was all spoilery once, but I suppose it isn't really, now.  Anyway, the point is, there was an end condition.  And eventually there will be again, where adamantium is involved...  but since it isn't guarenteed anymore, I suppose the end condition won't be, either (though technically you can guarentee it by selecting a mountain tile at the largest size -- there must be one, singular square with adamantium in it in that area, so you're sure to have some.  Good luck finding it or, for that matter, even just running your fortress at a decent speed at that size, though.)

But anyway, I suppose the game's motto is "losing is fun", not "winning is fun."

[ June 11, 2008: Message edited by: Aquillion ]

[Draco18s]

...it's adamantine.  The game reffers to it as such and should thus be reffered as such.  This is not the World of Warcraft metal, this is not the Marvel Comic metal, this is a Dwarf Fortress metal.

[Lazer Bomb]

quote:Originally posted by Draco18s:
<STRONG>...it's adamantine.  The game reffers to it as such and should thus be reffered as such.  This is not the World of Warcraft metal, this is not the Marvel Comic metal, this is a Dwarf Fortress metal.</STRONG>

IMO, adamantine gets confusing. Especially since theres a ordinary word ("he is adamant about his decision") that uses a similar form.

[Stromko]

I think it's already planned that eventually we'll be able to sustain a stable fort as an independent (or even owned and manageable) entity when we move on to playing as an adventurer or another fort. Picking out dwarves from your current site to colonize a new one, or just to go clear out some caves as adventurers, is almost certainly planned.

[ June 11, 2008: Message edited by: Stromko ]

[Nukeitall]

I'd actually like to see a fort able to be "retired" and join it's comrades as full fledged cities that you can recruit/travel to.

Without it being ruined and full of baddies, of course.

[Jamuk]

I think it would be a neat idea if it decided how the fortress would act based on your previous exports.  If you exported mostly rock crafts, then anybody who traded with you would get... mostly rock crafts.  That way it encourages building fortresses that build different things.  Make a fortress that exports lots of metal bars, then create a new one, and it will keep producing metal bars.  You could trade for all of those later on from your race's caravan.

You could easily abstract a process like that, and migrants that move there would be randomly assigned jobs with a higher priority for that industry if you visit in adventure mode.

[ June 11, 2008: Message edited by: Jamuk ]

[Fossaman]

Little tiny off topic nitpick here: Adamant is simply another word for diamond, which is very, very hard. Adamantine, therefore, is 'like diamond' and refers to a metal or stone which is, again, very, very hard.

On topic: 'Retiring' a fortress instead of abandoning it is a great idea. Especially if it then influences what sorts of trade goods you have access to in later fortresses.

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

Retire Fortress?  Absolutely, but only if certain requirements are met for it to be sustainable.  Even then, without your maestroful management, it could still goto hell.  

Speaking of visiting it again, what about in the Army Arc attacking your old fort and seeing if you can muster past all those bad ass defense's you put into place with your own seige!

[Jamuk]

Maybe not have requirements, just make it so that random disasters and stuff happen every once in a while, and if you leave with few people there they'll likely be wiped out fairly soon.  If you leave too early you just leave it to chance.

[Joseph Miles]

In my experience with DF, dwarves are just too stupid to do anything themselves. If you're not there, the fort WILL die. But I like the idea anyways.

[Techhead]

If my dragon-killing adventurer can settle down a live the quiet life of a farmer, then why can't I retire from my position of running a metropolis and go found another outpost, before the city I used to run burns down an a flare of magma and tantrum spirals.
However, you at the very need a mayor to do the job for you, its a full time position.

[Neonivek]

Right now the reason why Toady doesn't let you Retire fortresses is because the game is currently not set up in such a way that it truely could be left alone properly.

He does tend to eventually allow you to retire (as I assume other people on this tread have said)

[Jack A T]

Dwarf Fortress already has a way to win.  It is to lose.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

It's natural to expect a game to have a win condition. But that's not necessarily a required trait of all games. I think it's refreshing to play a game where you just make decisions within a game world and deal with the results of those decisions.

After all, in reality, there is no way to permanently win. Riding off into the sunset exists only in fairy tales. And there are plenty of games on the market that tell a story like that. DF is cool partly because it takes risks like this and serves up an interesting experience to the player.