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Author Topic: Double wall for engraving?  (Read 1835 times)

Guillaume777

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Double wall for engraving?
« on: March 30, 2009, 08:57:34 pm »

Is it worth it to have two walls between rooms, so it is possible to engrave from both side? Or is it better to just have one wall, and engrave the floor instead?
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sonerohi

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2009, 08:59:16 pm »

Well... Each room will only get the value of one wall, so it's more space taken up, more work done, and more time taken for a negligible effect.
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Fossaman

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2009, 08:59:47 pm »

I usually engrave everything that stands still long enough. But if you're engraving only the walls, it would be better to have a double wall. Apparently engraving only affects the side of the wall the engraving was done from.
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Shurhaian

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2009, 09:04:27 pm »

And that's exactly it. If you want to get the value of the walls, then yes, a double wall will work - otherwise, you get half the benefit. For a long wall and masterwork engravings, that's not inconsiderable.

On the other hand, you may want to consider that most of the value in a big room will be in its floor space. That also goes up faster as you make the room bigger. If you're using square rooms, and you make them n tiles long on a side, you get 4n + 4 on the walls, and n squared on floor space. A 1x1 room has most of its value in the walls(8 walls, 1 floor) but once you get to 5x5, the floor becomes more important (25 floor tiles, 24 wall) - if you have the room to double wall, you'd probably be better off just shaving off that extra line anyway.
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Hectonkhyres

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2009, 09:11:02 pm »

As long as you are using your Z-levels so as not to make dwarven commutes too great of a bitch, its not a bad idea. Its not like you are going to be doing it around things like workshops and storage areas and the hauler shantytown (the real space wasters in any fort) so there shouldn't be a problem.

In fact, I think I am going to start doing this myself.
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Nitrousoxide

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2009, 09:32:20 pm »

Use the space that would have gone into walls by just making the rooms 1 or two rows bigger.  You get the same benefit from an expertly detailed floor as you do a wall.  As such, the floor that is where you would be placing that extra wall is just as valuable to your fortress.  Not only that, but it makes the room bigger and allows for you to place more stuff in there.

Really, there's no reason to do double walls at all.
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Hectonkhyres

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2009, 09:58:53 pm »

Really, there's no reason to do double walls at all.
Besides the fact it is moderately awesome and it help you avoid the terrible, fortress-devouring monotony that is the bane of DF?

By your logic we should remove all walls and have lines of statues (and the occasional support) instead.
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sonerohi

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2009, 10:13:42 pm »

I usually engrave everything that stands still long enough. But if you're engraving only the walls, it would be better to have a double wall. Apparently engraving only affects the side of the wall the engraving was done from.

Pretty sure this myth got busted on the mythbusters thread. The results there, IIRC, shows that an engraved wall counts equally, in its whole value, for both rooms, regardless of which side it was engraved from.

Really, there's no reason to do double walls at all.
Besides the fact it is moderately awesome and it help you avoid the terrible, fortress-devouring monotony that is the bane of DF?

By your logic we should remove all walls and have lines of statues (and the occasional support) instead.

Supports aren't needed anymore.
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Untelligent

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2009, 10:25:30 pm »

I usually engrave everything that stands still long enough. But if you're engraving only the walls, it would be better to have a double wall. Apparently engraving only affects the side of the wall the engraving was done from.

Pretty sure this myth got busted on the mythbusters thread. The results there, IIRC, shows that an engraved wall counts equally, in its whole value, for both rooms, regardless of which side it was engraved from.

That's odd, in another thread I remember someone proving that walls only granted value to one side.
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Skelodwarf

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2009, 10:26:45 pm »

By your logic we should remove all walls and have lines of statues (and the occasional support) instead.

Done that already...

(Lining a wall with all masterpiece statues gives you a lot of exceptionals, and I needed to do SOMETHING with them...)
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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2009, 03:26:42 am »

Quote
That's odd, in another thread I remember someone proving that walls only granted value to one side.
The wall has no "side", it's just an unpassable tile with some value. Every room which includes it gains it's full value.
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Fossaman

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2009, 04:12:03 am »

I clearly remember reading posts where someone had done experiments with that and come up with direction of engraving being important.

This calls for a retest. Perhaps there was a mixup with quality of engravings being different for the two rooms that skewed the results.
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Core Xii

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2009, 04:15:26 am »

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=26201.msg307267#msg307267

Smoothing does not matter which side you smooth from

Engraving DOES matter which side you engrave from
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sonerohi

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2009, 07:14:13 am »

Well. I stand corrected. But at least it's better to stand corrected than to stand knee-deep in magma.
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Shakma

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Re: Double wall for engraving?
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2009, 07:55:30 am »

I thought I remember reading that if you re-designate the rooms that an engraved wall will count for both.
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