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Author Topic: Creating a hermit...  (Read 4317 times)

Techhead

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Re: Creating a hermit...
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2009, 05:18:25 am »

This is interestingly pointless... I like it :D

Anyways, if you connect three doors, throw the lever, then connect the other three doors, wouldn't you have one lever to alternate all doors with one flip?
No, IIRC, I tried something like that once before, but with floodgates, and it doesn't work. The lever has an on/off state, and everything connected to it matches that state. So if you tried it like you suggest, when you throw the lever again, only the first group would flip, and you've have all doors in the same state.
If you use floodgates and 1-tile drawbridges, it will work. They have opposite lever actions and identical delay timers.
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Engineering Dwarves' unfortunate demises since '08
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It's like you're all trying to outdo each other in sheer useless pedantry.

kotekzot

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Re: Creating a hermit...
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2009, 06:04:51 am »

This is interestingly pointless... I like it :D

Anyways, if you connect three doors, throw the lever, then connect the other three doors, wouldn't you have one lever to alternate all doors with one flip?
No, IIRC, I tried something like that once before, but with floodgates, and it doesn't work. The lever has an on/off state, and everything connected to it matches that state. So if you tried it like you suggest, when you throw the lever again, only the first group would flip, and you've have all doors in the same state.
If you use floodgates and 1-tile drawbridges, it will work. They have opposite lever actions and identical delay timers.
that's a useful bit of information - it will help me minimize the number of levers for my drowning chamber.
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DennyTom

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Re: Creating a hermit...
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2009, 08:56:56 am »

This is interestingly pointless... I like it :D

Anyways, if you connect three doors, throw the lever, then connect the other three doors, wouldn't you have one lever to alternate all doors with one flip?
No, IIRC, I tried something like that once before, but with floodgates, and it doesn't work. The lever has an on/off state, and everything connected to it matches that state. So if you tried it like you suggest, when you throw the lever again, only the first group would flip, and you've have all doors in the same state.
If you use floodgates and 1-tile drawbridges, it will work. They have opposite lever actions and identical delay timers.
that's a useful bit of information - it will help me minimize the number of levers for my drowning chamber.

This brings me to idea ... build two hermit cells. Whenever one of your hermits finishes his stockpile, let him pull one special lever. This will slowly fill one of two buffers (1x1 hole, that is being filled with water by floodgate/bridge combo that sends in 1x1x1 water, that means 5 units each time). When buffer overflows, it switches pressure plate, floodgate opens and kills the slower hermit! Craft to the death!

Could be also unreliably automatised with pressure plates in hermits' stockpiles.
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Puck

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Re: Creating a hermit...
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2009, 09:05:21 am »

While I seriously like your garbage dump hermit ideas... how are you going to actually do it, without micromanaging dumping all the time? You cannot place stockpiles over empty ground. I mean, you could try a waterfall that washes down some stairs with grates on the lowest level to drain the water but keep the stuff. I dont know if you can designate stockpiles over grates, but on the lowest, the output level, its probably not necessary. (Right now I can see an ubar complex contraption of waterfalls, stairs and drainage grates to move items around - that's actually great stuff to try).

But like you guys described it, confined garbage sorting hermits would either need waterfalls or airlock systems.

What? Have you ever tried place a garbage dump (a zone, designated from the 'i' menu) next to a chasm or channeled out area? (Note the NEXT TO, that is important.) Dwarves will throw the things down into the chasm or channeled out tile instead of just placing them on the ground.

The stockpile would merely be a means to getting the items out of the workshop for easier dumping.
Of course, that'S sorta basic knowledge, but that's not what I'm getting at. (edit; I have the urge to add a "well duh" here somewhere)

You have a dwarf, the hermit, on his respective z level, and he's supposed to sort the input items from above. That was the original idea behind the garbage hermit, right?

Sooooo... how are you going to do that without micromanaging dump zones over the output chutes?

Right.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 09:14:20 am by Puck »
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Arkose

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Re: Creating a hermit...
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2009, 04:16:33 pm »

This brings me to idea ... build two hermit cells. Whenever one of your hermits finishes his stockpile, let him pull one special lever. This will slowly fill one of two buffers (1x1 hole, that is being filled with water by floodgate/bridge combo that sends in 1x1x1 water, that means 5 units each time). When buffer overflows, it switches pressure plate, floodgate opens and kills the slower hermit! Craft to the death!

Could be also unreliably automatised with pressure plates in hermits' stockpiles.

It would be even better if you could get a Tetris Vs. Mode going: When one hermit completes their stockpile, it gets dumped in its entirety onto the other hermit all at once.
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Sinergistic

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Re: Creating a hermit...
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2009, 01:47:55 am »

While I seriously like your garbage dump hermit ideas... how are you going to actually do it, without micromanaging dumping all the time? You cannot place stockpiles over empty ground. I mean, you could try a waterfall that washes down some stairs with grates on the lowest level to drain the water but keep the stuff. I dont know if you can designate stockpiles over grates, but on the lowest, the output level, its probably not necessary. (Right now I can see an ubar complex contraption of waterfalls, stairs and drainage grates to move items around - that's actually great stuff to try).

But like you guys described it, confined garbage sorting hermits would either need waterfalls or airlock systems.

What? Have you ever tried place a garbage dump (a zone, designated from the 'i' menu) next to a chasm or channeled out area? (Note the NEXT TO, that is important.) Dwarves will throw the things down into the chasm or channeled out tile instead of just placing them on the ground.

The stockpile would merely be a means to getting the items out of the workshop for easier dumping.
Of course, that'S sorta basic knowledge, but that's not what I'm getting at. (edit; I have the urge to add a "well duh" here somewhere)

You have a dwarf, the hermit, on his respective z level, and he's supposed to sort the input items from above. That was the original idea behind the garbage hermit, right?

Sooooo... how are you going to do that without micromanaging dump zones over the output chutes?

Right.



Ah, for the entry/trade area, the 'top' of the fort? The fort seems to be intrinsically micro to me. You are locking dwarves up into there own little worlds, and keeping them supplied with materials to do their jobs, items to furnish there rooms (beds, etc), food to eat and booze to drink.

The hermits wouldn't have any problem knowing which chute to dump things into, since they would only have one in my interpretation of the fort. They get input from above, and all output goes down. (two cases I can think of: output goes down to another hermit or output goes down to a food stockpile for distribution if you don't plan on having your hermits grow there own food)

The sticky spot, where you would need to manage which chute gets input would be the top floor or whatever. The floor where raw materials get gathered and distributed. This could be accomplished several ways.

My first thought was having one room for each chute + stockpile, and a door to seal dwarves in. This would be ideal for large stockpiles (such as stone) which would need lots of haulers to get done quickly. Simply lock them in, dump, unlock. Tada. Not to much micro.

My second though was for smaller stockpiles. The chute + stockpile would still be in there own room, but the locking mechanism would be a door attached to a lever. Simply have a dwarf (you can assign the lever if you want/need to) pull the lever, thus locking himself in, then dump. Pull lever again when done, voila. Would need to make passageway long enough to prevent dwarf from getting out before door shuts.

One more way I thought about (and dismissed) was having a large central stockpile area, with each chute being behind it's own door, with an indicator of some kind near it (and forbidden rock for a rock chute, a barrel for a food chute, and so on). You just open the chute you want to dump into, and close it again afterward.
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Puck

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Re: Creating a hermit...
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2009, 07:49:37 am »

Alright, if you work with dump zones, the idea with the lockable doors seems the easiest to me, has the least micromanaging. But still, as much as I like the hermit idea, it's not really satisfying.

I think I'll try my idea: downstairs with no upstairs below them. And a grate+drainage on the level below. You can designate stockpiles on the downstair. Acts like an automated dumping order, once water comes into play.

Sinergistic

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Re: Creating a hermit...
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2009, 12:09:11 am »

Alright, if you work with dump zones, the idea with the lockable doors seems the easiest to me, has the least micromanaging. But still, as much as I like the hermit idea, it's not really satisfying.

I think I'll try my idea: downstairs with no upstairs below them. And a grate+drainage on the level below. You can designate stockpiles on the downstair. Acts like an automated dumping order, once water comes into play.

Except for that nasty bug (if it's still around) where items/creatures move through grates, because they are a 'part' of the water, which passes through the grate.

ninja: Maybe it doesn't effect items, I dunno now... the bug:

000680 □ [dwarf mode][buildings]   (Report,Report) unit projectiles go through wall grates, flows push units through bars

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