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Author Topic: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?  (Read 6402 times)

Sowelu

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2009, 07:31:38 pm »

Problems arise:  What happens if one player foolishly 'end tasks' the fort, dooming the world to nemesis load failures?  And what happens if all the goblins get wiped out?  Although it would be freaking sweet if one fort antagonized the humans enough that the next fort from that civ in that region started out at war.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2009, 08:15:28 pm »

Problems arise:  What happens if one player foolishly 'end tasks' the fort, dooming the world to nemesis load failures?  And what happens if all the goblins get wiped out?  Although it would be freaking sweet if one fort antagonized the humans enough that the next fort from that civ in that region started out at war.

Version control software would allow you restore from any point at which the world was functional.
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Floirt

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2009, 11:49:56 pm »

I support this project: it allows from relatively short gaming sessions, while keeping the madness up. Think of the fun to be had when you get a save from the middle of a siege!
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ThtblovesDF

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2009, 05:04:52 am »

Hey people could play the same world as humans, gobs, kobolds and Dwarfs and you will hear the most insane tails.


And of course there will be several dick-shaped Forts. It just has to be.
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PTTG??

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2009, 10:43:09 am »

...of course there will be several dick-shaped Forts. It just has to be.

Well, when you consider the effort that would take, it's not really that likely. Even griefers have better things to do than spend 30 hours making an offensive fort that will get banned after one view.
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2009, 12:15:47 pm »

Someone just fire up a subversion server?

When the next version comes out, generate 10 maps interesting maps or something, and stick em in there.

Pretty sure with the right settings you can make it so something can only be used by one person at a time.  When that person is done, he re-commits it and the next person can grab it.  If more then a certain amount of time passes, it should automatically become available, simply dropping that player.

There you go.
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Marko

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2009, 01:55:31 pm »

From a web designer's point of view. This would be really quite easy to set up. Just a simple file upload/download system would be easy. You could even have worlds fracture off into different branches if people wanted to play the same world at the same time. Would suggest modding the game a bit to make it really hard so fortresses get wiped out on a regular basis though... just so you don't have some jerk making a fortress that lasts 50 years or something...
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keith.lamothe

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2009, 04:19:52 pm »

Ok, assuming y'all haven't already moved forward with this project (meaning some kind of online repository of worlds allowing check-out and check-in), I would like to volunteer my services as time permits.  For what it's worth, I'm a professional web application programmer, and very interested in Dwarf Fortress.

Using SVN or something would be interesting, but you'll probably just want a web application.  If I'm wrong and SVN fits, by all means go ahead with that.

We need three things to make this happen:

1) Web Server with:
- adequate disk space
- support for some dynamic web language (ASP.NET, PHP, ColdFusion, etc)
- (probably) support for some database system (MSSQL, MySQL, etc)
- preferably, some sort of backup scheme so the whole thing doesn't get wiped because a hard disk dies

2) Clear statement of what "the system" should do
- who will use the system? (think user groups; e.g. "anyone" and "moderators")
- what users in each of these groups do? (e.g. "anyone" might check out or check in a world, whereas only a moderator could start a new world or "rollback" a world where the most recent check-in is inappropriate)
- what data do we need to track? (e.g. there will be any number of "world" objects, each of which has any number of "check-ins" representing state at a particular point in time; etc, more on this a bit later)

3) Web/Database programmer to:
- make sure the requirements of what "the system" should do are clear
- create the database and web interface that satisfy those requirements, and put those on the web server
- coordinate the testing effort to make sure the result is more or less un-buggy and satisfying to the clients (that would be y'all)

Of course, you'll also need community interest for this to have any real meaning (and to do moderating, etc), but it sounds like you have that.

---

So, PTTG, you've mentioned having some storage available; do you have something that would satisfy 1) ?  If not, sufficient hosting could probably be procured for $20/month or less but that would depend on how many people are pulling these files down at once and how many total files y'all want it to support.

As to 3), it's up to y'all but I'll be happy to do it as long as the requirements stay sane.

Which brings us to 2).  Here's my guesses based on what you've said thus far:

User roles and what they do
---
Normal User

- creates a username/password account, similar to how you create an account for this forum
-- account creation could be made contingent on moderator "approval", but this adds complexity both in the code and in the real-world process of waiting for a mod to get around to it

- can "check-out" any available world
-- downloads the latest file for that world
-- makes that world unavailable for further check-outs
-- can limit the number of worlds a particular user has checked-out

- can "check-in" any world they have checked out
-- uploads the file for that world
-- enters additional info like in-game year and description of what happened
-- makes that world available for further check-outs
-- could make the actual "available" status wait until a mod can take a look to make sure the check-in is legit, but again this might bog down the process unnecessarily

- can download a copy of any "check-in" ever uploaded, with the understanding that they cannot then check that file back into the world from which it came


Moderator

- creates a username/password account, similar to how you create an account for this forum
-- account will not function as a "Moderator" account unless and until another moderator flags the account as such (the programmer would set up the initial set of moderators)

- can do anything a normal user can do

- can create a brand new world
-- uploads the initial file (either right after world_gen or whatever, doesn't matter)
-- enters a description

- can "clone" a world
-- picks any check-in from any world, which is copied to the new world (just that one check-in, none of the previous or subsequent ones for that world)
-- enters a description

- can delete a world
-- deletes all check-ins associated with that world, and the world disappears from the list forever
-- intended for dealing with junk data

- can "rollback" a world to a previous check-in
-- deletes all check-ins after the selected check-in
-- intended for dealing with junk check-ins


Data to track:
---
World
- Name
- Description
- Date Created
- who has it checked out (if anyone)
- Compatible DF version(s)
- who uploaded it
- 1 or more "check-ins"


World Check In
- World to which it belongs
- Zip file containing what is necessary to play it
- Date of upload
- In-game Year
- coordinates of dwarf fortress if played in dwarf mode (needed?)
- who uploaded it
- comments from uploader



Ok, I'm sure I'm missing stuff, but there it is.

Some things to think about are:
- security; possible viruses in zip files from malicious users?
- do you want to restrict certain worlds to only allow check-outs from specific users (for a succession game or whatever)?

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Keith
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2009, 05:38:27 pm »

That all looks perfect actually.  In fact, that's ... well, yeah, perfect!

As for security, all that's needed is a quick check to make sure the world has the correct files in it.  If its not a world savefile, then don't let it be updated.  I don't know if that's possible for .ZIP files, but it should be I think.

And the restriction sounds like a good idea.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2009, 05:49:39 pm »

Subversion really is a perfect fit.  If you make your own web app from scratch, you'll be reinventing a very inferior wheel.
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IceShade

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2009, 06:09:41 pm »

Running out of room to build is out of the question. After all, if you can't build down, you can always... build up!

And plenty of lakes to settle in :P

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. I hope something will sprout from this.
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keith.lamothe

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2009, 07:57:13 pm »

Quote
Subversion really is a perfect fit.  If you make your own web app from scratch, you'll be reinventing a very inferior wheel.
If SVN really will fit the needs, then certainly you should go ahead with that; do you have a place to put the SVN repository?
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Footkerchief

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2009, 08:21:13 pm »

No, I don't have hosting, unfortunately. 
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2009, 09:24:27 pm »

Yeah, subversion would be pretty good... maybe we can tie it into one of the existing DF hosting websites.  Like the file depot or something.  Who knows.

Our own custom thing could also work.

But we still need hosting.
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PTTG??

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Re: Possible Way to Have Multiplayer?
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2009, 09:57:07 pm »

Don't know what I could execute, but I have server space.
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