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[X]

http://www.verge-rpg.com/files/detail.php?id=423&PHPSESSID=f22abbc9734ad606e290d6decdfd8b50

Try out the first version of my little combat system. DO NOT EXPECT a Toady level of programming here, but hopefully you'll find it quite entertaining.

X

[Handshakes]

I'll try it out and tell yas what I think of it as if you really care.

*EDIT* Not real intuitive controls. I didn't "appreciate" the humor of George boss I guess . The "game" itself, to me, took the worst part of console RPGs (the combat) and showcased it by itself without much an effort to improve it. So needless to say I didn't have much fun with it. But hey the code seems solid and that part of the program seemed pretty cool. Good program.

[ May 23, 2004: Message edited by: Handshakes ]

[ May 23, 2004: Message edited by: Handshakes ]

[Toady One]

I got my ass hammered by the hard George.  Well, sprayed then hammered.

I don't remember console games at all...  this one is real-time is the main difference?

[X]

I am indeed interested in everyone's opionions (and if it worked on their system fine), otherwise I wouldn't have posted it.  
Personally, I didn't really think there was any humour in George at all, in fact I dealt rather respectfully with him. Ok, maybe his thinking time is a litte long, but that's a game balance issue, and I'm sure I can speed it up if I create a 'Big Business' enemy to go with him. If you don't like the politics of me using George's head, I'd suggest you steer clear of Liberal Crime Squad, though of course that's largely aimed the other way.
I agree that combat tends to be the worst part of most rpgs - and oddly the thing you end up spending the most time doing. This is an attempt to move away from hit points and healing towards tactics and strategy. Obviously, it has some way to go yet. How do you think the controls could be improved? At the moment up/down/enter are pretty much the only keys used, but of course this will change for more than one enemy.
By the way, I think you wanted single quotes round 'humour' rather than double ones round "appreciate". Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

Wow, Toady, never played console games? Real time is part of the difference. Many of the more popular games were 'real-time', in that things happened over a measured period of time, but under that they were basically just turn based, with all actions being instant, and the delay to the next one being a set period (often one round, but sometimes per character). The big jump will be adding movement on a grid a a key part of strategy, almost never done in the console scene, and always badly implemented in crpgs.

X

[SkeleTony]

Downloading now X. You know I detest console style RPGs but for you...I will even visit a Verge link and DL a console styled RPG to test out your engine.

Also you lured me in with the hint of smacking on George Bush.

Toady One:

You have never played Final Fantasy or Phantasy Star or Dragon Warrior or Zelda??? All of those games are pretty different from one another to be fair but they are all similar in many aspects. Anime styled graphics(big heads, small bodies, weird hair etc.), WAYYY too simple mechanics(stats are usually limited to "Attack", "Defense", "Hit Points" and "Magic" to give you an idea) and most feature pregenerated characters, even robbing you of THAT small bit of interactivity(creating your own character)!
In addition they are usually linear to a ridiculous fault and if you are anything like me you will wonder why you are not just reading a (good) book rather than watch this game play you.

But X is a good egg and a good thinker with some good design ideas. For him I will tear myself away from the endless creationism vs. evolution debates and such that I am currently engaged in to check out his-...oh wow. The download is finished already!

Edit: Played. Non-intuitive. Couldn't figure out what I was supposed to be doing even after reading the "Do not readme". Also George Bush should be attacking by hurling '$' s at you or confusingly mangled phrases like "I am a supporter of hispanically owned nu-cu-lar weapons(SIC)!" or perhaps tossing "Axes of evil"(ouch!) at you.
I don't think Shrub makes a good boss baddie at any rate. In RL you can stop him dead in his tracks by a timely query such as "Does the Wendy's drive thru menu really read like a Dostoyevsky novel to someone of a single digit IQ?"(He will be rendered inert as he tries to figure out what a "Dostoyevsky" is even while he is getting hungry for a "Biggie Fries" and a "Junior Bacon Cheeseburger).

[ May 24, 2004: Message edited by: SkeleTony ]

[Toady One]

I played the first couple of Zeldas and Dragon Warrior I.  I never played any of the Final Fantasies.

I think Roguelike games do combat on a grid kind of okay, although it does get very annoying just trading shots.  My brother and I are trying to make the dwarves fight on a grid in a much more fluid manner, charging into squares, wrestling, being knocked over, dodging into other squares, knocking people off their feet and making them fly off, latching on with mouths and tearing pieces off etc.  so that when your armies fight other creatures, you don't just form lines and wack.  I played Gearhead for the first time a week ago and noticed that he has creatures dodging into other squares, although it's almost too slow to play on my computer for some reason.

Maybe trading shots in squares will be under assault on three fronts now.  This is good.

Edit:  Axes of evil...  ouch...  don't pain the kid...

[ May 24, 2004: Message edited by: Toady One ]

[Handshakes]

I did appreciate how the game tried to move towards tactics and strategy as told in the dont readme file, but honestly once I pressed an attack I had no idea what happened to it and therefor couldn't figure out if it worked or not. I still can't figure out where George's health bar is (if he has one I dono, just assuming) or what some of the moving little bars on the screen were doing.

I think I mostly agree with whatshisface (the guy two posts above me I believe. Can't go back to see who he was without retyping. Oh well) in his assessment of console RPGs (not his other comments ^_^). But I don't think that console RPG's are just a bad genre. I think they started out much like the old PC RPGs that were good for their time. But the PC RPGs evolved over time and are continually changing their formulai whereas console RPGs have been the exact same since the day the first one came to market. Sort of like the RTS genre  .

[ May 24, 2004: Message edited by: Handshakes ]

[X]

Hi Skele! You well?

Programming graphics is a bastard, this is why Toady retreats to ASCII and I find verge somewhat helpful.
Reading yours and Handshakes comments, it seems the problem is not a control one, but an interface one - specifically feedback. Even having not-read my don't-readme, of course you won't remember what every action does, seeing as they are graphically identical and textbox is unreadable; you are naturally going to be confused.
Invisible attacks and a bit of coloured flashing are not very satisfying outlets of aggression either... The game is not very entertainingly themed either, just bog standard rpg (as you so aptly described) with the start of something a little more interesting tacked on. I think at the least his 'Spray' attack should have been called 'Crusade against Islam'. But Handshakes and the FBI would have bashed me even more.  

I'm sure it should be spelt 'Dostoevsky' not 'Dostoyevsky' - but I guess with treansliterations there is not right answer. By the way, you still on creationism vs. evolution debates? Give up man, sometimes people are so massively wrong they'll never realise it - just campain against such silly things being taught in schools as anything other than entertaining myth.

Handshakes: Thinking about it, I understand your difficulties a little better now. To see George's health bar you need to use th 'Assess' move, but also portraits flash redder the more damaged someone is. Better damage and heal indicators are definately on the todo list though.
By the way, under the bit you type your post is a small window with the whole thread in it, that you can scroll through to read previous posts. Very useful.

The How to Play/Win guide:
Easy level - the key is to damage George fast and heal players when badly damaged.
Start by using 'Assess' with Sabra, it shows George's health bar. L(R)ana comes up next, have her 'Slap' - does very little damage but keeps her occupied while you wait for the big hitters. When Garret and Luna are ready have them do their top options - both damaging attacks. Attack (top again) with Sabra when she is ready too. Meanwhile use 'Boost' with Lana, this almost doubles the damage done by player attacks for the duration, and if you can time them all, will take George down to dead fastish. Lana also has 'Fairy Dust' a generic heal party move.
Hard level - winning is all down to influencing George. Do this with 'Draw Attention' - if it hits during thinking period (green tint), Garret will most of the time be the next target. Luna's 'Counter' will stop an action before George can perform it, if it hits close enough to the when the action will happen. Knowing how long 'Counter' takes compared to George's 'Restore' is the big key here.

Hope this clears a few things up, off to program now.  

X

[Handshakes]

I see the mistake of revealing my politcal feelings on this board. Even if it was just a joke.    So you are debating creationism vs. evolution? Where, may I ask? It seems I am forced to do the same thing with other topics (though I can guess I am probably on the other side of things) at my highschool. Though I am vastly outnumbered at my school I more often then not (always) come out on top. I don't attribute this to any mastery of modern politics and ideology, just I seem to be the only person who cares enough to do any research and be aware of what is going on in the world (without first being told by some celebrity or rockstar).  

But of course with that I will never (hopefully, unless provoked) utter any further words having to do with my ideology, being that ideology religion or otherwise. I find that talk of that nature rarely convert anybody, and generally just make people angry  .

[SkeleTony]

quote:Originally posted by Handshakes:
<STRONG>I see the mistake of revealing my politcal feelings on this board. Even if it was just a joke.    So you are debating creationism vs. evolution? Where, may I ask? </STRONG>

Where don't I would be a better question. I am a mainstay at Belief.net(my handle is 'GodlessSkeptic' over there but I mainly stick to the athemism debate boards because there are actual scientists spanking the crap out of creationists at the E vs. C boards so I just catch the stragglers who wander over to the Atheism boards apparently unaware of the fact that atheism has nothing to do with evolution), HOTU, Boards of Magic/Sorceror's Place, Straight Dope MB(before they started charging anyway), Gone Gold, Coming Soon!, etc.

quote:<STRONG>It seems I am forced to do the same thing with other topics (though I can guess I am probably on the other side of things) at my highschool. Though I am vastly outnumbered at my school I more often then not (always) come out on top. I don't attribute this to any mastery of modern politics and ideology, just I seem to be the only person who cares enough to do any research and be aware of what is going on in the world (without first being told by some celebrity or rockstar).  

But of course with that I will never (hopefully, unless provoked) utter any further words having to do with my ideology, being that ideology religion or otherwise. I find that talk of that nature rarely convert anybody, and generally just make people angry   .</STRONG>

Not to mention TOady is 3l33t H4><><0R and will send us a virus for mucking up his boards!

[SkeleTony]

quote:<STRONG>I'm sure it should be spelt 'Dostoevsky' not 'Dostoyevsky' - but I guess with treansliterations there is not right answer.

</STRONG>

It's Dostoyevsky on MY copy of The Brothers Karamazov! I don't read ANYTHING in the original russian!

 

quote:<STRONG> By the way, you still on creationism vs. evolution debates? Give up man, sometimes people are so massively wrong they'll never realise it - just campain against such silly things being taught in schools as anything other than entertaining myth.

</STRONG>

That's the problem though. The religous right here in America preys on kids and the scientifically illiterate like a child molestor. If someone is not there to catch them and expose the nonsense at the proverbial internet chatroom then this stuff propagates at an alarming rate!

You would not BELIEVE how many people actually believe there are "no transitional fossils" or that "radiomteric dating is flawed" or "Tons of scientists are abandoning evolution" etc. While still a minority they are a VOCAL minority adn they are crafty! They go after kids becuase they KNOW they cannot get 'em once they reach the college campus! Most of the so called 'creation scientists' even have BS degrees from degree mills like "Patriot University"(Hovind's 3 bedroom suburban rambler)!
We learned a hard lesson after the Scopes trial and if not for an influx of defectors from Germany and other European countries during and after WWII America would be in deep shit right now becuase of our "ignore 'em and they will go the way of the flat earthers" attitude.

Ooops! Toady is going to send me a virus for sure now!

[ May 25, 2004: Message edited by: SkeleTony ]

[Toady One]

Nah, this is fine.  I don't know why X is so hard on people who haven't "grown" out of these debates.  We all play computer games, after all  

Edit:  Ah!  I used double quotes!  NOOOOooo...

[ May 25, 2004: Message edited by: Toady One ]

[Handshakes]

I don't think there is anything wrong with believing in creationism or evolution.  I am not an overly religious person but I respect those who are. The basis of religion isn't about scientific fact, it was never supposed to be. It's about having faith and believing in some things like a creator God. Even if it isn't for you for whatever reason, religion (I guess by religion I mostly mean Christianity) is surely not a bad thing for most people. It helps people strive to better themselves by setting moral standards and gives them hope when they need it most. In the end creationism is an idea and I think it is pure arrogance to say that it is flat out wrong to have such ideas. You must remember that your own precious evolution theory has its own shortcomings and is often pushed like pure fact just as adamently as any evil right wing (hehe ^_^) person can push their ideas. Personally I believe in a sort of middle-ground (creatalution ^_^). I think humanity did evolve from a lower form, but not without the guide of a higher power. It just seems like we took way too many correct turns on our way to the top.

But debates like these can last years with no side getting anywhere. I myself have endlessly debated the flaws of global warming and, dare I say it, abortion. In the end of each scuffle I get more insights into my own position and a better understanding of theirs, but you will never get me to believe that abortion is a good thing. Furthermore I respect your being atheist, but I do not believe that your views are correct. Even so I will never try and push my ideals on you, and I would prefer you do the same to me. This is how I approach most similar subjects of the matter. We can all get along after all  .

I hope I am not offending anybody, because I am really trying to restrain myself here and not do that. In case I have I offer this instant defusal: How about that Doom3? It's looking pretty slick if you ask me.

[SkeleTony]

Nah, you would have to do a LOT worse to be offensive around here 'Shakes(Tarn and I ARE G.G. Allin fans after all   .</STRONG>

My ideals are in constant flux. I rethink them all the time and do not try to push them on others. Accepting evolution however is not an "ideal" anymore than accepting that 2+2=4 is. Evolution is a matter of science, not faith. I do not drag science into churches adn I oppose religionists who drag their church into our science classrooms and laboratories.

 

quote:<STRONG>I hope I am not offending anybody, because I am really trying to restrain myself here and not do that. In case I have I offer this instant defusal: How about that Doom3? It's looking pretty slick if you ask me.</STRONG>

Just for that you are going to Hell.

[ May 27, 2004: Message edited by: SkeleTony ]

[Kurtulmak]

The kobolds were created in Kurtulmak’s image.  The gnomes however, are obviously descended from lesser forms of life.