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Author Topic: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt  (Read 4183 times)

DragonHealer

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Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« on: November 09, 2007, 06:22:00 am »

With the huge amount of stone being mined in mountainous terrains I keep getting a lot more stones then what I know what to do with and this is from simply carving out the workshops and living places for my dwarves. Not only do the stones look ugly in the halls forcing me to assign hauling jobs to dump them outside (that new feature is a godsend compared to the previous version btw), but having to handle them all wouldn't do good to the game memory vise either.

What I propose is to separate the current "Mine" designation into "Mine" and "Dig", with dig being the default fast method of carving out rooms without leaving much stone behind, and mine as a slower method used to extract the needed stones and ores from the rock. Each stone would have a base difficulty (I think they already do, I've been getting microcline from almost every tile I dug out), it would be used when digging so softer rocks would have maybe a 0-30% chance to produce a stone, while harder rocks would leave more up to 100%, forcing the player to deal with these kind of stones anyway. If the roll is unsuccessful then the stone crumbles to rock dust (more on that later). The idea is to quickly carve out rooms when you already have an abundant supply of the stones held within. Mining would take the base chance and add a 20-50% chance to it depending on the mining skill, leaving more stones behind from the types needed. Since the game pauses automatically when a new vein of valuable stone is discovered the player can re-designate the area to mine and won't lose the rare stones/ores. A different color could be used, perhaps dark green instead of the brown we have now to differentiate between the two tasks.
EDIT: Digging would be as fast as mining is now, and mining should be much slower. I think mining is too fast even by dwarven standards. Additionally, carving stairs and ramps into the stone shouldn't produce stones at all, since it is used up in the carving itself, and behave similar to digging, although slower. I think digging channels should be the same since the miner has no direct access to the rock to mine carefully.

The mining job preference could also be broken up into mining and digging, but they would both use the mining skill. This way you could have only your most experienced miners work on ore veins, and set the novices to work only on digging common stone. I realize not everyone would like the way this adds more micromanagement but with using just the mining designation and leaving job preferences on the default (new miners should start with mining and digging both enabled) the player could play the same way they do now.

I mentioned rock dust since I wouldn't like stone to just magically vanish when unsuccessfully mined. Dust would be normally useless and work in a way similar to how mud, blood and vomit does now. When a tile doesn't produce a stone (if the miner wasn't skilled enough or if he was just digging away carelessly) the floor of the now open tile would contain rock dust. It could be dragged around when stepped on, and produce unhappy thoughts to dwarves based on personality - an organized dwarf would have thoughts like "Had to endure a dusty environment lately", so cleaning the main halls and rooms would be a priority. Dwarves would need to take time out of their schedules to clean but I think this would be less of a hassle then hauling all the stone to a stockpile obscuring traffic, which can get quite bad on a larger, more populated fortress. Of course I realize this would also need a way to tell the dwarves which part of the fortress to keep clean, so they are not constantly running into the mines to clean up after the miners working there..

Thoughts?
PS I'm sorry if this wall of text is hard to read, English is not my first language    :)

[ November 09, 2007: Message edited by: DragonHealer ]

[ November 09, 2007: Message edited by: DragonHealer ]

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Sir Edmund

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2007, 10:33:00 am »

I think thats a pretty good idea, but i quite like the mining times atm, perhaps having mining a little slower than digging but apart from that idea looks sound.

i think it would be cool if you could convert the rocks to gravel with your miner or a big rock squashing machine which you could then use for outside roads and maybe even for interior tunnels or mosaics :P.

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Chork

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2007, 10:43:00 am »

Dig it.  And don't worry about English being a secondary language, you're doing far better than most with English as a primary language.    ;)

Edit: And I agree with Edmund, too!

[ November 09, 2007: Message edited by: Chork ]

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MindSnap

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2007, 12:22:00 pm »

One part of DF that is unrealistic, and slightlybreaks immersion for me, is how dwarves pulverize rock into nothingness. For now, I can't think of any way of handling this in a practical way, but when we have wheelbarrows/mining carts, I think that a large part of mining should be getting the stuff away from the site.
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DragonHealer

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2007, 12:57:00 pm »

I think dwarves pulverizing rock is a good form of abstraction, just think of how much stone you would need to haul and find a use/space for, not to mention you most likely wouldn't start with a mine cart but have to make or trade for it later on. My idea would already handle where the rock goes in a form of dust and having to clean that up. Not perfect I know, but I don't think making this overtly realistic would help gameplay. 'course I have nothing against mine carts, I think it would be great to be able to transport lots of stone at once (the cart would act like a stockpile and when full a dwarf would push it to another stockpile to unload). I would especially love to see mine rails implemented later on.
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Capntastic

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2007, 01:56:00 pm »

I think this won't be a problem once storing huge amounts of rock is dealth with.   Because of this, I don't like the idea as it makes digging/mining, which is something done a lot in the game, far more complicated.
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LSTAR

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2007, 02:15:00 pm »

I don't get it... I'm having to deal with constant rock shortages. Most of my mining operations are initiatives to acquire desperately needed rocks.

P.S. Towers are awesome!

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Mylon

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2007, 09:44:00 pm »

Sure, the rock may look ugly, but just leave it be.  Keep a mason workshop on repeat build rock blocks and a decent size bar/block stockpile going.  Build all of your buildings/roads/walls with the blocks.  It also helps to be churching out and exporting rock crafts in large quantities.  If you stop digging for a while and/or assign enough masons, you'll clean out your fort in no time!  Or you could just take the hefty chore of designating them all to be dumped.
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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2007, 10:05:00 pm »

I have to say- this sounds pretty good; especialy now that Legnendary Miners get 100% of the rock the mine. As it is now, all my best miners have to retire or they'll clog up my fortress! This has my seal of approval.
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Quintin Stone

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2007, 10:32:00 pm »

They eat the dirt when they pulverize rocks.  Hey, they're dwarves.
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BurnedToast

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2007, 10:49:00 pm »

I really like this idea.

maybe because I suggested the exact same thing a week ago?

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Zorromorph

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2007, 01:02:00 am »

I completely disagree -- other areas of the game are not abstracted in this way, and dealing with the volume of stone to be able to use the small percent that is useful is a key element.  Personally I think more needs to be done, like making the stone laying about a hindrance to movement, having to move sand/soil, etc.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2007, 01:05:00 pm »

Seriously, dwarves should start wearing backpacks. Then the mining would produce a large amount of small rocks, a dwarf would run up, load a heap of smaller rocks onto his own back, and run off. Masons could also make blocks in packs, rather than "blocks" being a single item. Making doors and other things out of stone would require special jobs, which would require either miners, or masons, to get to the mountain and carve out a slab suitable for their needs.

I'm really torn between being glad that Toady took a much-needed (no doubt) rest, and being anxious for him to start working again.  :)

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elkman

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2007, 09:27:00 pm »

another way to solve the rock clutter would be for rocks to crumble into rubble, then disappear, after a certain amount of time. sort of like food spoiling. gems, and rocks placed in stockpiles would last forever. additionally, some rocks could crumble into sand, which would enable glass making at fortresses without sand. one problem would be useful rocks might crumble too, I can't think of any realistic way for toady to prevent that.
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Deimos56

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Re: Digging vs Mining - a new designation to help with clutt
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2009, 02:01:12 am »

Making doors and other things out of stone would require special jobs, which would require either miners, or masons, to get to the mountain and carve out a slab suitable for their needs.

Arise, oh thread, from the depths you've been buried in!

Found this while searching idly, and I think something like this- or, at least, this chunk of a post, bears some possibilities. Perhaps have a 'quarry' designation to get slabs of stone from, for doors/tables/etc? No idea how long the quarry should survive though. I'd imagine you could get an impressive amount of slabs from a square, but... then again, who needs the clutter?
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