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[Satatik]

I hate how when my guys get caught in the rain they get an unhappy thought. This is really bad in above ground settlements or if I'm playing a custom race like Kobolds.

Most if not all older civilizasions had a way of keeping rain away. Add unbrellas and ponchos please.

Also make a movement reduction penatly for walking in snow and then add snowshoes that are craftable.

Also I hate having to order up tons of armor piece by piece. Could you add a second option to the smelters/craftshops that allow the selection of 'armor sets' to craft?

These are my suggestions

[Capntastic]

This is typically what cloaks were for.

[Satatik]

But Japan had umbrellas quite a while back. And I'm sure china had them even further back.

[G-Flex]

DF isn't based on China and Japan. It's based on medieval Europe c. the 1400s.

This is an important distinction to make considering how very, very, very different those cultures were. You can't really say that DF should have something because China had something, because China was so different from the realworld setting that DF is largely based on. I mean, just look up Chinese inventions/science/technology on wikipedia and start noticing what they had by, say, the 4th century AD. Then compare that to the Romans, or to Celtic tribes, or Africa, or Native Americans, etc. Geography is just as important as timescale.

[Tormy]

Umbrellas? I find it unacceptable to have silly stuff like umbrellas in a game like DF. 

[Dame de la Licorne]

I don't think cloaks currently protect dwarfs from the rain, so maybe add that ability to them?

[Random832]

DF isn't based on China and Japan. It's based on medieval Europe c. the 1400s.

This is an important distinction to make considering how very, very, very different those cultures were. You can't really say that DF should have something because China had something, because China was so different from the realworld setting that DF is largely based on. I mean, just look up Chinese inventions/science/technology on wikipedia and start noticing what they had by, say, the 4th century AD. Then compare that to the Romans, or to Celtic tribes, or Africa, or Native Americans, etc. Geography is just as important as timescale.

Yes - but if something existed at all early on or was easily possible with that era's technology even if no-one had the idea, that makes it a lot more reasonable to bend the rules than if it didn't exist at all. Isn't Toady including plaster casts on the grounds that it existed in Persia?

[SirHoneyBadger]

Umbrellas? I find it unacceptable to have silly stuff like umbrellas in a game like DF. 

Not very silly when it's raining outside.

[profit]

I think umbrella's (parasols) go way way way back. 

I have to imagine Pharaohs had umbrella like things to keep the sun off of them.

Maybe the people in Europe did only wear cloaks..   But it must have been for fashion or some other reason.

Maybe they felt umbrella's were unlucky or something because I have to imagine they were invented a long time before.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I think you've got the right idea with the parasols.

I think they might have been used to keep the sun off of you, before they were used against rain. Probably, it was harder to make an umbrella back then that would hold up to a heavy rain.

[G-Flex]

DF isn't based on China and Japan. It's based on medieval Europe c. the 1400s.

This is an important distinction to make considering how very, very, very different those cultures were. You can't really say that DF should have something because China had something, because China was so different from the realworld setting that DF is largely based on. I mean, just look up Chinese inventions/science/technology on wikipedia and start noticing what they had by, say, the 4th century AD. Then compare that to the Romans, or to Celtic tribes, or Africa, or Native Americans, etc. Geography is just as important as timescale.

Yes - but if something existed at all early on or was easily possible with that era's technology even if no-one had the idea, that makes it a lot more reasonable to bend the rules than if it didn't exist at all. Isn't Toady including plaster casts on the grounds that it existed in Persia?

This doesn't make any sense. Everything was "easily possible" at any period. The only difference is the knowledge people have. The reason they didn't have TVs in 2000 BC was because nobody had the long list of ideas necessary to achieve the technology relevant to it. It's not as if they existed on a different planet with different natural resources.

I mean, I've made the example before that you can theoretically design an extremely complicated binary computer out of just about anything. That doesn't make it reasonable for stone age men to do it.

Granted, umbrellas are obviously a really small example. It's not really a huge deal, I'm just not sure if it would fit the flavor of the game, that being what it is, and I'd prefer stuff like cloaks. I was just illustrating the basic point that you need to take geographics into account when thinking about setting, or else you wind up with 5th-century australian aborigines using landmines and writing geometric theses on paper, while counting on those mesoamerican number knot things.

Obviously, DF doesn't exactly represent any real-world setting, so things get stretched. For instance, I can understand them having plaster casts even if they were only around in Persia at the time, since it's not exactly a huge technological leap, and because I imagine dwarves would have knowledge of plaster anyway, being surrounded by minerals half the time.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Well, I think that's part of the problem. DF models a fantasy world that never existed on Earth, except as a computer game. The whole 1400AD thing is just a guideline. As is the whole Europe thing. It's up to us, and more so up to Toady, to decide what exactly belongs in the game, and doesn't belong.

The big question to ask is whether or not it's reasonable for a dwarf to have either invented, or obtained, the method to produce an umbrella/parasol.

One of the factors is technological sophistication. They obviously have it.
A second factor is whether or not it's something they'd find useful. As a species that dislikes the sun, and one that probably doesn't like getting wet any more than humans do, I would say that's a yes.
A third factor is how well would it fit into their lives? In their short tunnels, an umbrella-one that doesn't collapse-might be an obstruction. So that's atleast one point against it.

Cloaks on dwarfs, specifically, are more Tolkien's influence than anything mythological or historical. We can look at Vikings, though, and compare their habits, and the habits of the people they came into contact with, for the sake of making judgements.

Some discussion of textiles might also be in order here.

From Wikipedia: Oilcloth
Oilcloth was, traditionally, heavy cotton or linen cloth with a linseed oil coating: it was semi-water-proof. The most familiar use was for brightly printed kitchen tablecloths. Dull colored oilcloth was used for bedrolls, sou'westers, and tents.

Back to the OP:

"Also I hate having to order up tons of armor piece by piece. Could you add a second option to the smelters/craftshops that allow the selection of 'armor sets' to craft?"

I'd really like to be able to define, on a point by point basis, and on a game by game basis, exactly what makes up each individual "suit of armour", but other than that, this to me is a great idea.

Snow penalty and snowshoes also sounds reasonable.

[Neonivek]

DF isn't based on China and Japan. It's based on medieval Europe c. the 1400s

Not exactly especially considering many of the other additions he put in the game. Though while I am certainly not saying that he is putting a Japanese focus on the game I am saying that he is drawing upon other cultures throughout the world as inspiration and as key elements to see if a peice of technology, culture, or knowledge would be possible within a timeframe. It is also a rule of thumb anyhow as SurHoneyBadger said.

It is also somewhat likely to change in the future once he refines his civilisation code so that people will respect their biomes more as well as the ability for civilisations to vary from one another to much greater degrees even if they are running off the same code.

One interesting aspect I always found interesting is that Umbrella's were used for Snow which is unlike now. It makes sense to me though since we have Waterproof wintergear and these would be people who would walk outside with just several layers.

As for Umbrella use... A bit of research has found the following cultures to have access to it before the 1400s (In fact FAR before the 1400s... often going into BCEs)

They are as follows: The Middle East, Egypt, Greece, Rome, China, India
-There are more... but discovering that Europe had it... pretty much negates the original objection

And as I have also found out, that even though they weren't popular they also existed in Medieval Europe at the time.

Though perhaps we should seperate Umbrella from a Parasol since I am using the term as if they both meant the same thing.

[LegoLord]

I like the idea of having something to keep rain away in general.

I'll also throw in another idea; liking rain.  People with this personality trait will enjoy standing or walking in the rain.  Of course, there would be varying degrees, as with all personality traits in DF.

[Neonivek]

I like the idea of having something to keep rain away in general.

I'll also throw in another idea; liking rain.  People with this personality trait will enjoy standing or walking in the rain.  Of course, there would be varying degrees, as with all personality traits in DF.

Lets keep this away from a "Personality" and put it more into a Likes and Dislikes system. If only to keep the game from becoming convolutedly complicated.