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[SirHoneyBadger]

I like underground/cave adaptation giving a bonus as well as a malus, primarily because it's a "double-edged-sword" effect.

It's interesting in and of itself, but more interesting (for me anyway) because of the division the effect causes between those who have it and those who don't, and the potential that that division opens up for specialization, and precedence for more self-contained ecosystems that are strongly adapted to their environment, to various degrees, but less adapted to unrelated environs.

[jockmo42]

I like underground/cave adaptation giving a bonus as well as a malus, primarily because it's a "double-edged-sword" effect.

It's interesting in and of itself, but more interesting (for me anyway) because of the division the effect causes between those who have it and those who don't, and the potential that that division opens up for specialization, and precedence for more self-contained ecosystems that are strongly adapted to their environment, to various degrees, but less adapted to unrelated environs.

Agreed. I think it'd be interesting to not only flesh out cave adaptation, but adaptation in general. Create a system to promote this kind of behavior. A small background system with vast-reaching effects.

[profit]

If this were anything like the real world.. Cave digging should result in mass casualties and cave adaptation should result in less.

Posion Gasses, Floods, Cave ins, Suffocation, explosive gases, rock bursts, and cooking due to proximity to magma.   

Tunnels are not safe. Toady just makes them that way

[LegoLord]

Posion Gasses, Floods, Cave ins, Suffocation, explosive gases, rock bursts, and cooking due to proximity to magma.   

Tunnels are not safe. Toady just makes them that way

For now.

At any rate, cave adaptation is pretty much what affects the nomes from the store in Terry Pratchett's, Truckers, Diggers, and Wings trilogy; they are not used to the sky, so it makes them sick.  The sun doesn't have much to do with it.  It is a minor contributing factor, because the eyes are capable of adjusting after a short time of being in the light.  It would just take longer for cave adapt dwarves because their irises would be under-exercised.  In fact, it would take longer for them to readjust to the dark.

[Aquillion]

At a bare minimum...

The place you are adapted to decides where you are happiest.  This is indisputable.  A dwarf who is cave-adapted is, by definition, more accustomed to caves than one who is not, and will be happier there.

Also note, while we're being logical:  Cave adaptation obviously should not be irreversible.  In fact, a month or two with regular exposure to the outside should quickly reverse it.  Eventually, you get used to the sky again.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I still think dwarfs should start cave-adapted, and have to get used to the sky.

[Aquillion]

Not while they arrive overland they shouldn't.  Maybe dwarves at home were cave-adapted, but any dwarf who could actually survive the journey to your fort isn't going to be cave-adapted by the time they arrive.

And, again, this artificially limits the sorts of things players can build -- if I try and make an above-ground fort, suddenly I have to deal with every immigrant who arrives vomiting constantly?  That's bad mechanics.

Not everyone plays Dwarf Fortress the same way.  Keeping that diversity of options and styles is much more important than adding any temporary challenges or anything like that, especially when big parts of the gameplay just aren't there yet.

[RAM]

I would like to be able to build a tunnel back to the mountainhome, by which the visitors from my civ would arrive, that would justify a whole lot of cave adaptation...

[LegoLord]

I would like to be able to build a tunnel back to the mountainhome, by which the visitors from my civ would arrive, that would justify a whole lot of cave adaptation...

Aye.  But if you selected not to do that, migrants would not have cave adaptation.

[jockmo42]

I would like to be able to build a tunnel back to the mountainhome, by which the visitors from my civ would arrive, that would justify a whole lot of cave adaptation...

Building a tunnel to the mountain home would present its own problems. Where's the mountainhome? How far away is it? How long would said tunnel take to build? Not to mention the creation of a tunnel from wherever you were to the edge of the world, regardless of how many features it'd have to bypass intelligently.

Not to put down your idea, I think it'd be awesome to be able to do such a thing. Thinking of how much it could add to gameplay is very interesting. But with the way this game's development is going, it seems, to me at least, that Toady would eventually like everything to have an actual purpose, everything integrated to be truly part of the world, not just an abstraction.

In this case, if I were developing the game in the same way I see Toady doing so, I'd want a literal mountainhome that this tunnel connects to. Sounds like a huge chore to implement. First the mountainhome itself, then procedural tunnels created from any site in the world.

Back on-topic, perhaps when cycles such as night and day are implemented, cave adaptation detriments could be lessened at night. Of course, they wouldn't disappear completely, because I don't see it as only sunlight, but the wide, open areas and extreme airflows that freak dwarves out.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I would like to be able to build a tunnel back to the mountainhome, by which the visitors from my civ would arrive, that would justify a whole lot of cave adaptation...

Aye.  But if you selected not to do that, migrants would not have cave adaptation.

You'd make me happy. 

It'd be nice if there were a "switch" that could be flipped, by modding, that would start dwarfs off cave adapted, if we want them to be. Migrants might be randomized between the two, either arriving adapted, or non-adapted, depending on their origins and means of arrival.

And I've never had a dwarf actually die from cave adaptation...hmmm.

Also, maybe the "Mountainhome" could be selected from that large database of player-created Fortresses that we currently have access to. The game could choose one randomly, or one could be chosen based on the "terrain" it's to occupy, based roughly on that original Fortress's location.

[zchris13]

Being able to see 2 tiles into the mountain.  Would be cool.

[LegoLord]

Being able to see 2 tiles into the mountain.  Would be cool.

Why would they be able to do that?  It's vision adjusted to darkness, not X-ray eyes.

[Grath]

Suggestion for a way to deal with gradual cave adaptation and sky adaptation:
Make them non-attribute-giving skills. No jobs related, no labors to enable/disable, just skills that you gain from spending time underground/aboveground. If your cave adaptation skill is, say, two levels higher than your sky adaptation skill you start puking aboveground. Vice-versa for cave adaptation in some way. Worse effects the more the two skills are separated.

[Craftling]

When (if) lighting ever finds its way in ,then this would be a good way to circumvent cave adaption. Itll expose dwarves to the light gradually and will eventualy cure them of cave adaption. Lampposts, glowing rocks, lamps, torchs etc would be good for this. Also non cave adapted creatures should be able to get lost in the dark.