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[jockmo42]

Okay, so I was watching my dwarves vomit every time they leave the cave one day and I thought; "If they're cave adapted, shouldn't being inside make them happier? What the hell does cave adaptation do besides making them wet themselves in sunlight? This isn't dwarven at all!" So I got to thinking, what if cave adaptation offered some benefits? Here's a list of ideas I came up with.

*Combat bonuses in interior areas. - Dwarves who are comfortable underground should feel at ease there, maybe to the point of granting a small combat bonus when fighting in their element. Of course, this sword has two edges, as dwarves outside fight less effectively thanks to that horrible glare and sickening fresh air.

*Rock sense. - Cave adapted dwarves can detect warm and wet stone from a radial distance around them thanks to a strong bond with the rock.

*Detection benefits. - Interior dwarves can more easily detect sneaking filth while indoors, but outside, they're far too busy vomiting to effectively detect anything.

Anyone have any more ideas? I searched around for threads, but I couldn't find any recent ones on this subject.

[tsen]

The nauseous condition and occasional pauses to be sick are already quite annoying (and in some cases deadly) but I agree it would be nice to have cave adaptation do something nice (and show up in the profile screen)

[jockmo42]

The nauseous condition and occasional pauses to be sick are already quite annoying (and in some cases deadly) but I agree it would be nice to have cave adaptation do something nice (and show up in the profile screen)

Right. It doesn't have to be all bad. I'd really love to see some behavioral shifts in the dwarves that pertain to the design of different fortresses. Features like this could change the way different people play. More variance for every player's game.

[Craftling]

Getting lost should be a downside for those without cave adaption

[Wizardmon]

It would be cool if dwarfs moved a little faster in caves when they adapt to living in them.

Currently all my dwarfs only go outside for one thing if they are not part of the megaproject I am building, they vomit all over the place at the trade depot soiling my platinum floor and platinum trade depot.

I wish you could designate a puke bucket or something.

[SirHoneyBadger]

It's my (limited) understanding that cave adaptation *does* confer (stat?) benefits, already--or else it's atleast supposed to.

[jockmo42]

It's my (limited) understanding that cave adaptation *does* confer (stat?) benefits, already--or else it's atleast supposed to.

Well the detriments are more than obvious, but I've yet to notice any apparent benefits. Can anyone confirm this?

[LegoLord]

It would be cool if dwarfs moved a little faster in caves when they adapt to living in them.

They already do - the reason being, they aren't stunned and vomiting from the sky and sunlight.

But the whole cave adaptation is supposed to be a drawback to being inside all the time; giving it benifits doesn't do much for that.

Stone sense doesn't make much sense.  Something shouldn't be more sensitive to heat and dampness just because it's underground.

[PMantix]

They already do - the reason being, they aren't stunned and vomiting from the sky and sunlight.

But the whole cave adaptation is supposed to be a drawback to being inside all the time; giving it benifits doesn't do much for that.

Stone sense doesn't make much sense.  Something shouldn't be more sensitive to heat and dampness just because it's underground.

Yeah, but it's called cave adaption..  I don't know how you can adapt to something without getting better at it (or, I suppose I wouldn't understand the point of that adaption then)

Increased movement speed, 'rock sense', increased combat ability in cave/underground environments all seem like logical improvements from heavy exposure to dark, damp and cramped areas. Or at least I would like to see them,

Seems like these are all (ok, maybe not the psychic rock sense) based on increased night vision..  so maybe just a increase to the base perception while in a dark area would suffice. Although, maybe being comfortable in a cave area makes it easier for you to scoot around too..

just a thought

[LegoLord]

Yeah, but it's called cave adaption..  I don't know how you can adapt to something without getting better at it (or, I suppose I wouldn't understand the point of that adaption then)

That's the biological sense, which takes several generations of natural selection after a mutation that improves stats in the dark somehow.  Adaptation in the game's sense, however, is more the way someone becomes psychologically accustomed to something after awhile.

[Lord Dullard]

the way someone becomes psychologically accustomed to something after awhile.

Precisely. And if you can attribute detriments to this, you should logically be able to attribute benefits to it, as well.

Evolution doesn't necessarily have to be involved - although realistically speaking, since dwarves live underground, they SHOULD have evolved underground-adapted faculties already. But we'll leave that to another discussion.

If they've been underground to the point of 'adapting' to it, psychologically or otherwise, we should be able to presume they have sharpened their hearing and vision - the same way that a person who goes blind will almost certainly learn to better use their other senses. They'd also be able to fight better in this relative darkness, and navigate better through the narrow, twisty paths that they live in.

And if you're so unwilling to confer benefits through cave adaptation, at least admit that those creatures that aren't cave-adapted should get DETRIMENTS from going or fighting underground, just as dwarves do from going above-surface. Elves, humans, and other wimpy surface-dwellers should occasionally suffer from debilitating panic attacks if they spend too long underground.

[Heron TSG]

a person who goes blind will almost certainly learn to better use their other senses.

Incorrect. they just pay more attention to their other senses. Losing one sense doesn't effect your genetics.

[Lord Dullard]

a person who goes blind will almost certainly learn to better use their other senses.

Incorrect. they just pay more attention to their other senses. Losing one sense doesn't effect your genetics.

Please... just read what I said. Use your brain to process the words. It says nothing about INCREASING their senses or changing their genetics. In fact, you just reworded exactly what I said twice.

[LegoLord]

a person who goes blind will almost certainly learn to better use their other senses.

Incorrect. they just pay more attention to their other senses. Losing one sense doesn't effect your genetics.

Please... just read what I said. Use your brain to process the words. It says nothing about INCREASING their senses or changing their genetics. In fact, you just reworded exactly what I said twice.

If they've been underground to the point of 'adapting' to it, psychologically or otherwise, we should be able to presume they have sharpened their hearing and vision

Let's not go and start insulting people, shall we?

[Lord Dullard]

Let's not go and start insulting people, shall we?

Insulting =/= calling out faulty logic.

I still don't see where I said they'd magically reconfigure their DNA for better hearing/vision. If you practice throwing baseballs for three weeks, you've sharpened your baseball skills. You've probably increased your strength and endurance, too, although that doesn't mean you grew five new sets of muscles by altering your genetic strands. But please - point out to me this place where I said they would grow an extra set of eyeballs and ears?