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[TerminatorII]

I've been using long slowly sloping tunnels lately. Ill have a central corridor that splits into two then ramps (all 3 wide) then next level 3x3 on both sides and more ramps. repeat. I usually have my farms up on the soil level then below and surrounding them is plant processing and clothes making. Below that is food storage and NEXT to that is the Great Hall with a (river fed) lake in the middle so I NEVER run out of fish or water all next to my food production.Near the magma I place my forge and smelting industry. My rooms go near the hall but in a mostly central location. Next to my Hall and Rooms I place most other industry and the only thing that is realyl far from my food is the trade Depot (which is also closest to the entrance.) I also place all nobles thronerooms next to the trade depot and thier private dining halls in acloves surrounding my main hall. Food centrality Is my usual theme.

[Andir]

Wait, what? Can you have multiple down or up stairs stacked on top of each other for one-way movement?

No.  If you have a down stair, it must have a matching up stair below it.  If you have an up stair, you must have a down stair above it.  If you only put up stairs, the dwarfs will not be able to go up to the next level unless they dig a down stair above it.  (Or an up/down)

[PMantix]

Yeah, a lot of these shaft designs wouldn't work.

Check out the top half of this graphic to see why;

[Katsuun]

No one said DF followed the rules. We sue Up/Down staircases, at least in my case. I dont care if a dwarf could fall 40+ Z-levels to a gory end, Up/Down stars are just easier.

[LegacyCWAL]

Wait, what? Can you have multiple down or up stairs stacked on top of each other for one-way movement?

Not for one-way movement, no.  But alternating stairs like that can be climbed/descended in a zig-zag pattern.  From the side, a dwarf's path would look kinda like a sigma (Σ).

Doing that allows a "shaft" design, but without the danger of falling all the way to the bottom.


Edit: Adding possibly clearer explanation of the "sigma" comment:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Say a dwarf wants to go down four z-levels on one of these staircases. His path would be in red:

uD
Du<----
uD
Du
uD
Du---->
uD
Du

[Volfram]

I originally used a shaft of 2x2 UD staircases, and in fact, the first thing I generally do in a fort after getting my housing and industrial levels set up is to sink such a shaft to the bottom of the map, but after reading Nist Akath, I generally make a nice spiral ramp around the shaft, then drop the shaft into itself to clear it.

And just like in Nist Akath, dwarves seem to choose "Fling self from spiral shaft" as the most popular form of suicide.

I used to also (try to) build a shaft to the top of the map, but after I modified my entryway design(3xLong corridor with ramps to a trade depot, completely open, sealed off from the rest of the fortress by lockable 2-wide doors), it's not exactly feasable anymore.

[Brodiggan]

I don't know if it qualifies as a "main column" exactly, but I've been using a hex/honeycomb design for almost everything lately. It's quick, easy to adapt to the terrain, and I can tailor the individual hexes to whatever I need fairly easily. I usually have a set of one/three/seven hexes running down the middle of my fortress, so I suppose it qualifies. One hex at this size happens to fit four-five workshops with small storage areas quite nicely, and with some interior walls left in I can prevent upset crafters from getting loose into the rest of the fortress.

This image is from a fortress I just started last night, so there's not a huge amount to see, but it shows three carved out hexes, being used for storage, the beginnings of a barracks/meeting hall, and water storage. The water storage hex has a few tiles left in place the others lack, to prevent it from connecting with the surrounding hexes. Just to the left is a freshly designated room to be mined out, showing how the hexes tile. For defense I use a combination of pillbox towers and walls outside (each hex can potentially mine up to build 3-7 pillboxes, forcing gobbo's to walk through a _lot_ of crossbow fire before they can even reach a real entrance) and if something makes it into the fortress I try and build in chokepoints and cage traps between hexes I worry might need defense.

When I get a bit more room I'll add some more advanced features to show off the possibilities  (I've been dying to build a triad of hexes with the central stairway cut away and an offset hex channeled in the center of the bottom floor, for a waterfall to pour into. That and I've always wanted to try draining/water cooling each level of a magma pipe, cutting hexes out of the exterior then collapsing the center, and letting the magma refill the center point of the 7 hex cluster. No real use, just want to do it.)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Andir]

There's no way I could do hexes like you did... mine would all have to be uniform. :p  The water storage doesn't fit the layout.  I'd be forced to leave a whole hex between the water and the fort or make all my walls two spaces thick.  In fact, I'd end up doing that anyway because the dwarfs can travel diagonally through the wall between the storage and the central hex.  so much loss of traffic control...

[Brodiggan]

There's no way I could do hexes like you did... mine would all have to be uniform. :p  The water storage doesn't fit the layout.  I'd be forced to leave a whole hex between the water and the fort or make all my walls two spaces thick.  In fact, I'd end up doing that anyway because the dwarfs can travel diagonally through the wall between the storage and the central hex.  so much loss of traffic control...

Heh, actually the diagonal travel through the edges was the reason I canted them over 15 degrees instead of just having two walls running straight up and down. I was trying to think of a way of recovering all the space I'd been using on hallways, and this design just hit me. For areas I need traffic control I either use the z-axis (just having 1-3 stairwells connected, with hatches I can close) or use walls and doors in the diagonals for stuff like workshops. It's a bit distorted and I'll post a picture instead once I get the fortress up and running, but here's how I might layout a hex with six workshops, all of which need to be able to lock. Storage in the center, to allow for movement, a ring of workshops, and interior walls to close it all up. The empty space along the top left and bottom right wall I'd probably drop some booze and food in, maybe a table and chair set, to cut down on the time the crafters spend running to take care of hunger.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

          # # # # D
        # # W W W #
      #   # W W W D # # # X
    #     # W W W # W W W #
  #       D # # # # W W W #
X # # # D         # W W W #
# W W W #         D # # # D #
# W W W #           # W W W #
# W W W #           # W W W #
# D # # # D         # W W W #
  # W W W #         D # # # #
  # W W W # # # # D       #
  # W W W # W W W #     #
  # # # # D W W W #   #
          # W W W # #
          D # # # X

#: Wall   D: Door   X: Stairwell   W: 3x3 Workshop


edit: Noticed one line was off by a couple spaces because of a typo, and cleaned it up a bit to make it more readable.
edit-edit: Ok finally got that laid out right.. note to self, screenshots are easier.

For cells like the water tank, I just leave the tiles that would be connecting diagonally along the edges unmined. It takes some thought at first, but after the first few it's all rote.

[Andir]

It looks a lot better with the workshops, but I'll admit, I still have a particular "twitch" for separating rooms with doors.  I fear that I'd end up merging the closest corners of the N/W and S/E workshops and putting in a door.  Doing that, I'd take out the wall and make that space into another room.  It would kill the symmetry of a hexagonal design.  Something like so:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

          # # # # D
          # W W W #
          # W W W D # # # X
          # W W W # W W W #
          # # D # # W W W #
X # # # # D       # W W W #
# W W W #         D # # # D #
# W W W D           # W W W #
# W W W #           D W W W #
# D # # # D         # W W W #
  # W W W #       D # # # # # # # # D
  # W W W # # D # #         #       #
  # W W W # W W W #         #       D # # # X
  # # # # D W W W #         #       #       #
          # W W W #         # # D # #       #
          D # # # X # # # # D       #       #
                  #       #         D # # # D #
                  #       D           #       #
                  #       #           D       #
                  # D # # # D         #       #
                    #       #       D # # # # #
                    #       # # D # #
                    #       #       #
                    # # # # D       #
                            #       #
                            D # # # XEven then, I'm afraid I'd pervert it further:

Code: [Select]

        # # # # #
        #       #
        #       # # # # X
        #       #       #
X # # # D # # # D       # # # # #
#       #       #       #       #
#       D # # # D # # # D       #
#       #       #       #       #
# # # # #       D # # # D # # # #
        #       #       #
        # # # # #       #
                #       #
                # # # # XSee? I killed it!

Though, you've actually inspired me to fiddle with it a little.  My biggest problem with these uniform designs that work is actually designating them.  I REALLY wish DF had some sort of template creation for designations.  Of course, I'd love to be able to use my mouse to do it for quick "drag and drop" fortress design with the ability to draw out circles and other shapes dynamically.

[Brodiggan]

It looks a lot better with the workshops, but I'll admit, I still have a particular "twitch" for separating rooms with doors.  I fear that I'd end up merging the closest corners of the N/W and S/E workshops and putting in a door.  Doing that, I'd take out the wall and make that space into another room. 

Yeah, I'm eternally torn between keeping it all symmetric, stone/space efficiency, build time, defense, etc. Which is probably why I spend more time staring into space pre-planning my whole fort than actually laying anything out.

Actually, that's a big part of what makes this hex layout attractive to me. It's flexible. You can take the three inside stairs from a set of 3 rooms and match them up to a room below by reversing which of the 6 hexagon points have stairs on them on that floor, or add center stairwells to 3 hexes and drop them down to the corners of another without flipping the design. It keeps me from tantruming when my masterwork fortress design is destroyed by the existence of an unexpected cavern or magma pool. ::grin::

Though, you've actually inspired me to fiddle with it a little.  My biggest problem with these uniform designs that work is actually designating them.  I REALLY wish DF had some sort of template creation for designations.  Of course, I'd love to be able to use my mouse to do it for quick "drag and drop" fortress design with the ability to draw out circles and other shapes dynamically.

Even without built in circles and shapes, just having the ability to designate tiles based on a template is something I would KILL for.

[Andir]

It keeps me from tantruming when my masterwork fortress design is destroyed by the existence of an unexpected cavern or magma pool. ::grin::

I cheat... thanks to 3Dwarf :p  I know.  It's bad, but I can map out my entire fort before I start digging... then I usually get bored with it before I finish it... so maybe it's bad that I do it.

[Duke 2.0]

 Alright guys, I need help. I need a repeating design for a stairway. Simple, right? Well, three things:

1. It must allow wagon access. This means ramps and three-wide halls.
2. It must connect perpendicularly with a hall to the south on every level.
3. It must always be north of this hall, and use as little space as possible.

 I shall share the fortress when I'm done. It will be glorious.

[Andir]

Code: [Select]

[quote author=Duke 2.0 link=topic=32764.msg481005#msg481005 date=1238190055]
 Alright guys, I need help. I need a repeating design for a stairway. Simple, right? Well, three things:

1. It must allow wagon access. This means ramps and three-wide halls.
2. It must connect perpendicularly with a hall to the south on every level.
3. It must always be north of this hall, and use as little space as possible.

 I shall share the fortress when I'm done. It will be [i]glorious.[/i]
[/quote]Ground
##############
####_#########
####_#########
####_#########
##############
##############
##############
##############

-1
##############
####R...#_...#
####R...#_...#
####R...#_...#
#............#
#............#
#............#
##########...#

-2
##############
####_....R####
####_....R####
####_....R####
#............#
#............#
#............#
##########...#

-3
##############
#...R#..._####
#...R#..._####
#...R#..._####
#............#
#............#
#............#
##########...#

-4
##############
#..._####R...#
#..._####R...#
#..._####R...#
#............#
#............#
#............#
##########...#

goto -1
Like so?

EDIT:  I forgot layer -4 ... that would have been a mess :p

[Guy Montag]

I just lay down a 1x3 up/down stairway, or I have 1x3 up stairways with 1x3 down stairways across the main hall on that floor. Never had any issues with people falling down stairs.

Not that the main shaft is ever used, because all my rooms, workshops, stockpiles and everything are connected by a clusterfuck of impromptu stair cases placed wherever I think they'd help decrease travel time.