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[RedWarrior0]

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[Zancor Mezoran]

Btw, how do you put a quote in your signature?

[Kanddak]

About the catapults: does it destroy the stone when it's fired, or no? because if it didn't, then my masons and stonecrafters and mechanics will constantly be running out to grab some stone from the catapult firing range, only to come back with half a dozen broken bones and damaged organs.

The stone is destroyed if there's a floor under it when it hits a wall. If it falls into a channel, it's not destroyed.

About the pumps: Heh, not only do I not know how to make and use pumps, but wouldn't it be a better idea to have the dwarves that would be pumping to be mining out my new bedrooms instead?  and that way, they'd get legendary after a year or something, while there would be rooms for the immigrant dwarves that they wouldn't get kicked out of.

Regarding making and using pumps: To run a pump gym, I don't ever set up the pumps to actually move any fluids, I just build them in a room on solid floors. The dwarves don't care, they pump away and gain skill just the same.
About whether to use pumping or mining: Once I get a few legendary miners I hate to add new ones just to train dwarves. Inevitably, when I go to dig out that aluminum or diamond, the brand new miner takes the order and destroys the prize. And he hardly gains any experience, because whenever I mark a room for digging, the other miners have just about finished the room by the time the newbie digs out one tile.

About the Purist-Modders War: I'm personally rooting for the modders, since I don't think modding the game is cheating.  I mean, adding content (like a civ mod or a texture pack) changes the game in a desirable way.  Sure it may not be the true Dwarf Fortress, but it's still fun and we play it for fun.  But on the other hand, a mod that takes out something (other than a bug or exploit), like the Zero Rent:Yes tag, just doesn't seem right to me.

Augh! I don't care if people use it or not, but it's just plain wrong to describe an init option as "a mod".
"Modding" means changing your raws, not "anything I personally think cheapens the game". How about sealing your fort behind two hundred weapon traps, overlooked by two dozen marksdwarves? That's not modding, it's a gameplay strategy. Zero rent isn't modding, it's an init option.
On the flip side, I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who thinks it's cheating to mod cats to have mouths that carry things like they're supposed to, so they don't spam "too injured" all day. But it's certainly modding.
The argument isn't about whether modding itself is right or wrong (or whether it adds fun possibilities vs detracting from the spirit of the game), it's about what kinds of modding (or init options, or gameplay strategies) are appropriate.
I guess I'm just kind of picky about precise use of words that way.

[Eagle]

About the catapults: does it destroy the stone when it's fired, or no? because if it didn't, then my masons and stonecrafters and mechanics will constantly be running out to grab some stone from the catapult firing range, only to come back with half a dozen broken bones and damaged organs.

If the stone hits an obstruction it will be destroyed; if it hits an obstruction then falls a level or more, it is preserved. Thus: (W is a wall, C is the catapult, H is a channel)

W           CCC
W           CCC         Wall stops the rock, rock is destroyed.
W           CCC
WWWWWWW

Otherwise:

WH         CCC
WH         CCC         Wall stops the rock, rock falls into channel, rock is preserved.
WH         CCC
WWWWWWW

You can make quantum stockpiles of rock like this.

[freeze]

Cheesy Method 2
Make a 1 or 2 tile room somewhere and put a table in it, make it the only meeting area. The dwarfs should become legendary talkers within a year if they have ample break time.

I have to try this. Tatrums for one and all!!

[Tiler]

If you feel like adding something to balance out the challenge since you took out rent, you could always just make fish amphibious.

[Zancor Mezoran]

That would be nice, but I don't have a single fish on my map. 

[Maltay]

I keep the economy on, but I set rent to zero.  The rent for rooms is static based upon the value of the room.  This seems strange.  If no one can afford to live in the cheapest room, then the price of the room should decline over time.  When more than one dwarf can afford to live in the cheapest room, then the price should increase over time.  The economics systems is missing any form of equilibrium in the sense of supply and demand for rent.  Given that disabling rent and disabling economics are separate options, I imagine Toady One sees one as working far better than the other and prone to annoying players to a degree such that rent can be easily disabled while the economy at large continues to function.

[Zorgn]

About the adamantine kittens: If you melted them down, what would you get? Adamantine bars or Kitten bars?  Or both?

Sounds tasty. Brew the kitten bars into a sort of kitten whiskey & you could have an entirely kitten based fort.

[LegacyCWAL]

This just in: Turning on partial print decreed to be modding. Players who don't want to mod the game plan to protest, but it may take a while, as they are proceeding at 6 fps.

I can sort of understand not wanting to turn the economy off or set zero rent, but it's just silly to say that setting an init option is modding the game.

Can you change partial print from in-game?  Or does it require editing a file?

It requires editing a file, thus it is modding.  It doesn't have to matter to be modding.  Whether or not something is modding is binary, the only options are "yes" and "no".  There is no "sorta", no "slightly", no "but it doesn't matter", no "it's silly".  When asking whether or not something is modding at all, the only two answers are "yes" and "no".

There's nothing wrong with modding at all.

I completely agree.

The dwarven economy is just a stand-in, from what I understand. As it is, it represents an actual economic system about as well as poison ivy represents a salad.

I completely agree.  The economy is a fucked-up stopgap.  But whether we like it or not, it's part of the game.

I really don't think turning off rent is the same as modding in cats that crap adamantine bars.

I completely agree.  The two are, indeed, nowhere near the same degree.  It is, however, still modding.



Let me make something very, very clear:
I do not think that modding is a bad thing.
I do not think that removing rent and/or the economy is a big deal.
I do not give two shits about whether or not somebody decides to mod the game.
I am NOT a "purist".

I gave an option that, unlike so many others in this thread, did not require modding.  And I resent the implications that my desire to help somebody was instead some sort of statement of belief.

[Zancor Mezoran]

Oh and BTW Legacy, your slum idea would be nice, but I can't use it.  I don't have enough in my fortress to make dwarves happy, seeing that my dining room consists of rows and rows of tables and chairs, my zoo is incomplete, and my statue garden hasn't been furnished with masterwork bits yet.  Plus I don't have a waterfall.  I rely on my engraved bedrooms to keep dwarves happy....they would probably all tantrum if I didn't have that.

[Kanddak]

Can you change partial print from in-game?  Or does it require editing a file?

It requires editing a file, thus it is modding.  It doesn't have to matter to be modding.  Whether or not something is modding is binary, the only options are "yes" and "no".  There is no "sorta", no "slightly", no "but it doesn't matter", no "it's silly".  When asking whether or not something is modding at all, the only two answers are "yes" and "no

I agree that something either is or isn't modding, and that I don't morally care if someone mods or not.
But setting configuration options and modding are completely different things, and "do you edit a file to do it" is an absolutely terrible and meaningless way to make a distinction between the two. You know that if you change configuration options in any game, they're being read from and written to some configuration file, right? You're still editing a file, you're just doing it with a convenient user interface in the game program rather than with a text editor.
DF, aside from having a crummy placeholder economy, also has a bare-bones placeholder user interface, and many of its configuration options are changed by hand in init.txt. That doesn't turn configuration into modding.

[Musluk]

Urist McPurist: OMFG what do I do?!? I want to get more than 2 fps to kill my cats, but omg omg I don't wanna mod!?!
The flying Sarcasm hits Urist McPurist in the left knee!
Urist McPurist explodes into gore!

Modifying an option in the init file is akin to choosing a pre-given difficulty level. I think the init file as the options menu. Remember DOS games? Most had a setup exe to change sound card etc. Is this modding?

Modding =/= Modifying options. We're still playing a roughly 25% finished alpha of a game, remember. We'll HAVE to change stuff in files.

[kotekzot]

This just in: Turning on partial print decreed to be modding. Players who don't want to mod the game plan to protest, but it may take a while, as they are proceeding at 6 fps.

I can sort of understand not wanting to turn the economy off or set zero rent, but it's just silly to say that setting an init option is modding the game.

Can you change partial print from in-game?  Or does it require editing a file?

if you imply that editing a file constitutes modding then half linux programs are operated through "modding". init.txt stores settings. whether you edit it through a graphical interface or not doesn't matter. editing raw files is modding. changing settings is not.

[Mohreb el Yasim]

Sounds tasty. Brew the kitten bars into a sort of kitten whiskey & you could have an entirely kitten based fort.

You alredy can, kitten pars are called Kitten Soap and are a good building matteriel. However to be able to live only from kittens you migth need to add some kitten bone barrels, bins, and beds ...