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[BloodBeard]

I love the danger and depth of Nethack, and I love the gameplay and creative freeness of DF. I figure together they would be total awesomeness  .

This will be quite an undertaking given the sheer amount of monsters and items, so in the meantime i'll use this topic to give updates and discuss any problems.

Here's a little something borrowed from Toady to keep track of how things are going. I'll add more things and update the list when I can.

To-do list:

Creatures

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-Filter out creatures that won't be included
-Determine speed of creatures
-Determine creature biomes
-Determine creature size
-Determine creature damblock
-Determine creature attacks
-Order creatures by attack power
-Order creatures by defensive power
-Test creature stats
-Create creature files
-Create body files
-Full creature testing

Weapons/Ammo

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-Choose which weapons/ammo to include
-Determine attack power/damage type
-Create weapon/ammo files
-Weapon/ammo testing

Armour/Clothing

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-Choose what armour/clothing to include
-Determine armour block
-Create armour files
-Armour testing

Gems

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-Find out what I can do
-Create files
-Testing

Intruments and tools

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-Determine what intruments and tools I can add
-Create files
-Testing

Food

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-Determine what foods to include
-Create food files
-Test foods

Civvers

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-Modify the Dwarven entity files
-Test new Dwarves
-Modify the Elven entity files
-Test new Elves
-Modify the Humans entity files
-Test new Humans
-Replace the Goblins entity files with Orcs
-Test Orcs
-Replace the Kobolds entity files with Gnomes
-Test Gnomes
-Create new Gnome language

Legend:
Not started
Being worked on
Started but put on hold
Started and will be ongoing
Finished


Monster Refuse Pile:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Baby Monsters: They'll still be in the game as the children during breeding.

chickatrice (An army of Cockatrice! (is that the plural?) Muahahaha!)
little dog
dog
winter wolf cub
hell hound pup
kitten
housecat
pony
baby long worm
baby purple worm
baby gray dragon
baby silver dragon
baby red dragon
baby white dragon
baby orange dragon
baby black dragon
baby blue dragon
baby green dragon
baby yellow dragon
red naga hatchling
black naga hatchling
golden naga hatchling
guardian naga hatchling
baby crocodile

Civer Extras: There can be only one

dwarf lord
dwarf king
hill orc
Mordor orc
orc shaman
orc-captain
gnome lord
gnomish wizard
gnome king
Woodland-elf
Green-elf
Grey-elf
elf-lord
Elvenking

Undead: The undead system makes these pointless to put in. There aren't mummies in DF but they're basically zombies.

kobold mummy
gnome mummy
orc mummy
dwarf mummy
elf mummy
human mummy
ettin mummy
giant mummy
kobold zombie
gnome zombie
orc zombie
dwarf zombie
elf zombie
human zombie
ettin zombie
giant zombie
skeleton

Quest leaders: They're good guys

Lord Carnarvon
Pelias
Shaman Karnov
Hippocrates
King Arthur
Grand Master
Arch Priest
Orion
Lord Sato
Twoflower
Norn
Neferet the Green

Other creatures that don't fit anywhere:

warhorse (horses will be trainable)
Keystone Kop
Kop Sergeant
Kop Lieutenant
Kop Kaptain
nurse
shopkeeper
guard
prisoner
Oracle
aligned priest
high priest
soldier
sergeant
lieutenant
captain
watchman
watch captain
archeologist
barbarian
caveman
cavewoman
healer
knight
monk
priest
priestess
ranger
rogue
samurai
tourist
valkyrie
wizard
student
chieftain
neanderthal
attendant
page
abbot
acolyte
hunter
thug
ninja
roshi
guide
warrior
apprentice

If you can think of a way to add in some of these without creating new civs, please post.

Speaking of civs, one thing that is certain is that i'll be going by the races in Nethack. Goblins will be replaced with Orcs and Kobolds with Gnomes. Sorry guys, it's to the lowly spawning duties with you.

The main focus of this project will be to accurately mod in the monsters of Nethack. In otherwords, make it so everything can and probably will kill you.

[DanielLC]

Wouldn't there be ones you can't mod in because of a special attack you can't do, such as the cockatrice? Come to think of it, you might get a passable variant with [SPECIALATTACK_INJECT_EXTRACT:?:?], [EXTRACT_PERMANENT], and either [EXTRACT_PARALYZE] or [EXTRACT_STUN].

[inaluct]

Why wouldn't baby crocodiles work?

[BloodBeard]

Wouldn't there be ones you can't mod in because of a special attack you can't do, such as the cockatrice? Come to think of it, you might get a passable variant with [SPECIALATTACK_INJECT_EXTRACT:?:?], [EXTRACT_PERMANENT], and either [EXTRACT_PARALYZE] or [EXTRACT_STUN].

That's the plan (perma-paralyze) along with any other stoning monsters. Some things I can't find a way around, like electrical attacks. Pierce feels like a good enough substitute and acid attacks can use Burn. Some of the dragons might have to do without an elemental or special attack though.

Why wouldn't baby crocodiles work?

I noted at the top of the list that baby monsters will still be in the game in the form of the children. baby crocodiles would be what you get if you breed crocodiles.

[inaluct]

Oh. :I

Anyway, I hate air elementals. Just saying.

Oh yeah, have you thought about making the Nethack classes into races? It could be interesting to have a map dotted with Archaeologist Universities and such.

[BloodBeard]

Ditto on the air elementals, and to reflect on that they're going to be crazy fast in DF 

Roles as civers don't seem right to me. The roles are only occupations like priests, rangers and fighters that exist within the races. As fun as a tourist siege would be with 50 tourists trying to kill you with their credit cards, I don't think it'll work. 

[Kilo24]

Too many fun ideas come to mind from a crossover of the two games.

-Trading cockatrice roast to elves.
-Polymorphing dragon soap.
-Engraving either "Armok" or "The Toady One".
-Wishing for a +3 fixed blessed silk sword.
-Loudly cursing out your god as you get all your dwarves eating either puppies or kittens.

[BloodBeard]

-Engraving either "Armok" or "The Toady One".

Naming your expedition leader Elbereth and engraving your entrance floor until you get one of her rising to leadership. The ultimate siege defence! (though not against elves or humans)

The characters and colours can be matched exactly from Nethack, but that's about the only thing as far as monsters go. One piece of info that I can use fairly well is the speed. It's not exact, but I think this could work well enough:

Nethack Speed   DF Raw Speed    DF Actual Speed
25+             300             2500 (air elementals)
21-24           400             2000 (unicorns)
17-20           500             1666
13-16           600             1428
10-12           700             1250 (most other monsters)
7-9             800             1111
6               900 (Default)   1000 (dwarves)
3-5             1100            833
-2              1300            714 (molds, piercers)

For reference, the top two are faster then a perfectly agile dwarf. 37% faster in the case of air elementals.

[BloodBeard]

Natural attacks, I've assumed the numbers work like damblock where 1:6 would actually mean 10 to 60 in the weapons files, but does anyone know for sure? I can't find anything that explains it in detail.

[BloodBeard]

Update:

Right now i'm trying to sort out the stats of all the creatures in one big list. I've quickly come to realize that judging their danger level with DFs combat system is fairly difficult looking at numbers alone. For the next while i'm going to have to run lots of tests with modded wolves and cougars (easy to find in adventure mode) so I get get a better feel for the impact of different numbers.

In the meantime i've had some thoughts on other things:

-The closest thing to Elbereth in DF is mass traps and moated bridges. I can't do much against the moated bridges, so any creature that is not affected by Elbereth (@'s) will have trap avoid. The bad news is, Master Kaen is a @ and there are no wands of sleep in DF. The good news is you'll have a way to defend yourself against the abomination of evil known as Demogorgon.

-Like horses I think i'll take out large dogs and have 'dog' be it's grown form. War Large Dog would sound silly  . Also I may leave the stats of vanilla dogs alone. If they were to be as strong as nethack dogs there would be no need to have soldiers.

-There are over 40 individual monsters in Nethack that are worthy of megabeast status, 28 of which are unique and need to be megas. I may have to demote some of the less important dragons to semi-mega status.

-The power monster. I'll be removing out all DF monsters that I can afford to take out, and that includes Demons. Suprisingly there are very few creatures that can take it's place once you remove unique monsters as candidates and take HFS into account. I've narrowed it down to Arch-liches or a high priest called High Priest of Moloch. Please let me know which you'd prefer 

[inaluct]

-The power monster. I'll be removing out all DF monsters that I can afford to take out, and that includes Demons. Suprisingly there are very few creatures that can take it's place once you remove unique monsters as candidates and take HFS into account. I've narrowed it down to Arch-liches or a high priest called High Priest of Moloch. Please let me know which you'd prefer 

I support arch liches. Actually, though, it'd be nice to see miscellaneous undead in there. The arch liches would be what makes it fun.

Or you could have HFS themes based on unique demon lords. There could be a Juiblex theme with slimes, etc.

[diriel]

Arch Lich.

[BloodBeard]

I support arch liches. Actually, though, it'd be nice to see miscellaneous undead in there. The arch liches would be what makes it fun.

Or you could have HFS themes based on unique demon lords. There could be a Juiblex theme with slimes, etc.

Not sure if you're talking about HFS or the power monster. After reading my post I guess I was a little unclear . I'm torn between the two to be the leaders of the orc civs. They wont have anything to so with HFS. In fact i've already decided on what i'm going to do with HFS, and as the name implies, it shall remain hidden! (though it should be obvious if you know a bit about the unique monsters)

[diriel]

Oops, my bad for not reading your post more carefully. As for the leader of the Orcs: High Priest.

[BloodBeard]

I'm leaning towards High Priests too. They're more like to be a leader of orcs. Arch-liches would be a definate choice for an undead civ leader but that's not happening. High Priests would also be the only real connection to Moloch, the true enemy in Nethack.

The list of creatures is now down to 261 and I may shorten it more. There are some hierarchy creatures that would'nt work that well as individual 'breeds' (Ogre kings/lords, large kobolds/kobold lords).

I've constructed multiple lists that accurately list all the creatures in order of attack power and defensive power. Unfortunately, the numbers used to do this are not very DF friendly. The only way these help me atm is that I know monster A is to be stronger/harder to kill than monster B.

Size... this is becoming an increasingly frustrating problem as size doesnt always equal power. The hardest hitting creature is Master Kaen who is a human. Dragons are the largest creatures in Nethack and yet they are not even in the top 30 of toughest monsters. If I'm to be picky about keeping the sizes true to Nethack then it's going to complicate things more then they already are.