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Author Topic: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)  (Read 4549 times)

Neonivek

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2009, 10:13:11 pm »

It would also allow them to seem magical far before any magic system comes to surface.

I mean, when they under normal circumstances come in so many shapes and sized that each town is like an entirely different civilisation they can be almost mystical in a sense.

Though they would need SOME ruling characteristics to keep the player from being too confused (or some way of decifering it)

Along with this they could have a strong Caste system in the sense that Fairy leaders, diplomats, and powerful are almost always going to be powerful and large Fairies with supernatural intelligence while the weaker commoners could be so small and pathetic that they might as well count as vermin with intelligence that barely brings them above that of animals.

Wow, I just noticed that I stumbled upon a way in which we could (and should) combine the vermin and Human sized Fairy :D

My... I am falling too far inlove with this idea... (Figures this is going off the page... ohh well)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 12:45:08 pm by Neonivek »
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Fensfield

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2009, 05:04:58 pm »

Ah now this idea I like o.o

The castes concept, I mean.  After all, so many portrayals of 'fae culture' show a rigid (if rather strange beside human counterparts) caste system.  It actually reminds me of a MUCK I used to play on, part of which had a fae court.. though that allowed mortal retainers, which might be something worth considering here, too.  Kind of like a human/dwarf/elf/whatever that chooses to serve the fae court in exchange for its protection, but is still basically the lowest rung of its society.

Another point to consider might also be Wardens, as a kind of military oddity.  Sort of like a a mid-range, lone enforcer charged with keeping fae settlements safe.. though I guess DF probably couldn't acomodate that.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 05:07:06 pm by Fensfield »
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Quift

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2009, 10:21:46 am »

This entire thread becomes somewhat moot when you taske into account that goblins, elves and dwarvs all are "fairies". The goblins/unseelie/svartalf/ are as fey as the Elves/seelie/ljusalf in most mythologies. The Dwarves themselves are in norse mythology fey of the mountains, skilled in crafts, magic and with the ability to shapeshift. The alf/elves are nature spirits, good and bad. In norse mythology you would get enchanted by the fae who would lead you to drown in lakes or rives, or lead you out into the woods til you got lost where they would laugh at you. They also dance in the mist, and if they catch you watching them they will either disapperar or glamour you and take you with them to their home where you will live your life enchanted til you die of hunger. The svartalf are mostly interchangeable with troll, they would kidnap babies and replace them with their own, they would lure you out into the darkness, and they would live in magnificenent courts under the mountain.

Then there are the gnomes/vättar who would live on the farm and whom you would give food to bribe them to take good care of them farm. And if you didn't they would make the milk sour in the udders of the cows, your livestock might die of diseases, and the crops will rot in the fields bringing famine to your home.

Scandinavian folklore is one of the basis of modern fantasy, but generally what we have now is already a perverted tolkienesque devieance. Anything going in a mythological gets my full support. The elves should be less Elves, and more fey.

That might entail things like glamouring, sadism, enchantments, vulnerability to iron, and maybe kidnapping of stray adult dwarves being out in the woods.

Urist Lokum has been enchanted by the Elves and has disappeared into the woods!


The goblins might benefit from being less fantasy stable bad guys, and more magic aswell. Invisibility, shape-shifting, babysnatching, trap-avoid, attacking from the chasms, and if possible replacing the young with their own changelings.

Melbil Kulekebim has grown up. He has lured in the darkness and has stolen Livubash cerol - an aluminium flute- He was a Changeling!
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2009, 01:25:20 pm »

I'd agree about the elves, except that Toady and ThreeToe are already doing interesting things with them, already.

The farming effects would be fun.

"Melbil Kulekebim has grown up. He has lurked in the darkness and has stolen Livubash cerol - an aluminium flute- He was a Changeling!" <---This is perfect.

Since I've got a little time: What if Fae critters were only tangible while their Court was prominent? Like, most of the time, they'd exist as intangible "ghosts", but--during winter, summer, fall, spring, and then either night or day, they became "real", touchable, killable, able to manipulate objects, and be manipulated, themselves.

They'd still be able to move around the world, just not perform any other actions. That's kind of what I had in mind for the "lives in Time, instead of Space" thing.

Might also help reduce FPS, since all the computer would have to do with them, atleast 7/8ths of the time, would be to track their movement.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 04:02:31 pm by SirHoneyBadger »
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Fensfield

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2009, 05:30:26 pm »

Here's a thought on the above idea - which, by the way, sounds good and all.

What if, along with the fae themselves shifting from tangible to intangible according to season, the land they occupy shifts with them?  So their settlements, during their off-seasons, may simply disappear, or be visible but intangible, like mirages.  And what if, if a mortal remains in a fae settlement as the season shifts, they become trapped in Fairyland or its DF equivalent, too?
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2009, 05:55:51 pm »

^^^^ Great idea.

Maybe beings trapped in different Courts could age/experience time at different rates from the norm?

As in:

Beings trapped in the Spring/Day court would age in reverse, getting younger instead of older, while Spring/Night would just stop aging.

Beings trapped in Summer/Day and Summer/Night would stop aging while the world moved on around them.

Beings trapped in Autumn/Day would age in the normal fashion, while Autumn/Night would age at twice the normal rate.

Beings trapped in Winter/Day would stop aging, but they'd be trapped for approximately 90 years (1 year passing in the "normal" world, for every day in the 'Otherworld'), instead of 90 days, while beings trapped in Winter/Night would age a year for every day they were trapped.
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Zangi

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2009, 08:59:38 pm »

Ethics and personality could help determine the difference between each variation of the fae folk... Though from experience, certain personalities have strong effects in worldgen...  especially when it comes to conquest and getting wiped out...

I must question... what with all this complicated stuff you are talking about... is most of it possible now?  Or do you expect this complicated stuff to be possible later on?
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Fensfield

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2009, 03:51:34 am »

Well, I'm sure some of this is possible currently.. at least via modding.

But honestly, my expectation is that at least 70% of this stuff, like truename manipulation and extra-planar stuff, won't be possible on anything more than a representative level until the other races have reached a similar degree of complexity to the stuff we're suggesting here ( besides, I don't think anybody here would want those things without a balancing amount of complexity from the other races as well ).

But I'm sure a lot of it's possible now.  Fairy intrinsic weaknesses to iron and the like, for instance, maybe some of the special ideas about their settlements...
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 04:02:49 am by Fensfield »
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2009, 04:19:10 am »

I think it'll be enough right now just to define some of the different types, and subtypes we'd like to see in the game.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 04:21:22 am by SirHoneyBadger »
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Zangi

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2009, 10:02:03 pm »

I think it'll be enough right now just to define some of the different types, and subtypes we'd like to see in the game.

No expert or anything of the sort...  so someone knowledgable has to at least start with a race name/creature.. and general bio...  I can then probably make one... heh... good practice...
Been screwing around with races and entities and trying to balance new civilizations in world generation...  sometimes 1 race dominates all its surroundings and sometimes another gets wiped out by neighbors... and so on.

So that has to be kept in mind when making these folk.  World gen balance and game balance has to be kept, so you know.. its playable and you won't just be reading about how X race/civilization were absolutely wiped out in your legends and adventures...  (Though I would love to see the enslaving of X race/civilization.... by another...)

Gameplay vs umm 'whats right'?

We can actually go forward with 'whats right' first, before we go to balancing gameplay...  When we have all or most of the Fae races/civs made up...
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 10:03:50 pm by Zangi »
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2009, 03:07:07 am »

I can probably provide a useable list of types to get started...

Let's see:

Wmach: These are primordial Welsh giants who are able to transform themselves into giant stone "menhir" or standing-stones, at will.

Gruagach: The Scottish equivalent of the brownie, a small, gnomish being with the ability to transform itself into a large white dog.

Bradan Feasa: The "Salmon of Wisdom": An enormous, ancient/immortal, very intelligent salmon with the gift of speech.

Leipreachan: Another spelling for the more popular "leprechaun", these are often depicted as little old men, but my research says that they can be human sized fighters, with the ability to age themselves, or revert back into children. They have the power of illusion, and guard the treasures of the Fae.

Bean Nighe: A fae washerwoman who washes the graveclothes of those about to die. A specific type of Bean Sidhe (or "banshee"), she dresses in green, and has webbed feet. Like the leiprechaun, she can also appear as either a beautiful young woman, or a crone, at will.

Spriggan: Fae bodyguards, although they usually appear as tiny, hideously ugly green men, they have the ability to swell in size at will, becoming huge. They armed themselves with clubs studded with poisoned thorns, and often stole babies.

Meri-Morgan: Beautiful water faeries who ride seahorses, and play the harp. Despite their peaceful appearance and ways, when in danger, they have the ability to call upon their kin-the beautiful but vicious Merrows--wild nymphs of the sea

Dullahan: A headless horserider armed with a whip made from a human spine. Ignores gates and locks. Fears gold.

Kelpie: Black (sometimes white), extremely strong-10 times the strength of a normal horse-amphibious Fae horse that drags children into the water to drown and eat them.

Seonaidh: An ancient fae sea spirit that grants blessings. Resembles
an old woman with long, wet white hair, with a fish's tail and hands like squids. 

Cyhyraeth: A disembodied fae spirit that governs the moment of death.

Coblynau: Gnomelike Welsh beings that haunt mines. Only a foot and a half tall, and very ugly, they work constantly, but never finish their work, and can cause rockslides.

Gwrach y Rhibyn: A winged black hag with black teeth that forebodes death. She can take the form of a lizard, and in that form eats babies. She can also turn into mist.

Clurichaun: Drunk and surly cousins of leiprechauns. They ride sheep and dogs, and are perpetually drunk. They haunt winecellars, guarding them from thieves, unless treated badly.

Fachen: A creature with half a body, split down the middle of it's torso, from top to bottom. It has a whole head, but it's head is terrifying, covered in jetblack feathers, and with a huge mouth. Enormously strong, in it's one arm the Fachen wields a magical chain that's capable of cutting through tree limbs. It can destroy an entire orchard in a single night with it's chain.

Boobrie: A giant predatory fae bird that haunts lakes and natural sources of salt. Resembles a giant loon, but with white markings, and the ability to roar.

Tylwyth Teg: Golden-haired faeries of Wales. Neither entirely good or evil, but do kidnap children. Afraid of iron.

Jili Ffrwtan: Proud, and amorous, female members of the Tylwyth Teg. A bit like Rumplestiltskin, in that Jili Ffrwtan would take on work that other woman couldn't do, but would demand the woman say her name in 3 days' time, or forfeit everything they owned, including their husbands and children.

Ghillie Dubh: Wild, but shy fae who guard trees. Covered in dark hair, they clothe themselves in moss and leaves. They're most active at night.

The Cailleach: One of the most powerful of all the Fae, the Cailleach is the queen of winter. A gigantic old woman who carries a mallot with which she shapes the hills and valleys of the land, she turns to stone with the coming spring, turning back when autumn arrives.

Afanc: An enormous and hideous fae water demon. 

Each Uisge: A similar creature to the kelpie.

Crom Cruach: "bent blood ", a powerful and ancient fae.

Crom Dubh: "bent black", another powerful and ancient fae.
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Zangi

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2009, 02:37:38 pm »

A few things I need to question:

Quote
Bradan Feasa: The "Salmon of Wisdom": An enormous, ancient/immortal, very intelligent salmon with the gift of speech.
Description sounds like a [MEGABEAST] fish... were there a lot of em or a very small number?

So this question comes to mind:
1: Do you intend all fae types to be civilization?  Or is it ok for some to be  made as random 'creatures' or Megabeasts... with the can_learn and can_speak tag and whatever else?

Quote
Leipreachan: Another spelling for the more popular "leprechaun", these are often depicted as little old men, but my research says that they can be human sized fighters, with the ability to age themselves, or revert back into children. They have the power of illusion, and guard the treasures of the Fae.

2: Genders,  havn't messed with X gender only civilizations yet... also with creatures, except for the Tentacle Demons... and they arn't the regular roaming sort...  but,  my logic dictates that they won't get anymore then what  they start with, even with the ability to birth.  (Insert chorus of ewww :P)  Either way, I suppose I'll end up testing it out.
Quote
Meri-Morgan: Beautiful water faeries who ride seahorses, and play the harp. Despite their peaceful appearance and ways, when in danger, they have the ability to call upon their kin-the beautiful but vicious Merrows--wild nymphs of the sea

3: Merrows... pet/trainable creature or another civ?  If another civ, unlikely to be allied like described. And if pet/trainable, may be used by other civs.

Quote
Dullahan: A headless horserider armed with a whip made from a human spine. Ignores gates and locks. Fears gold.
[MEGABEAST] ?

Quote
Kelpie: Black (sometimes white), extremely strong-10 times the strength of a normal horse-amphibious Fae horse that drags children into the water to drown and eat them.

Each Uisge: A similar creature to the kelpie.
By the powers of... Carp and Elephant/Unicorn combined?  A creature? Or an body eating civilization?
Would be nice if there was some difference between the two that I could work with...

Quote
Cyhyraeth: A disembodied fae spirit that governs the moment of death.
[MEGABEAST] and [POWER] ?

Quote
Coblynau: Gnomelike Welsh beings that haunt mines. Only a foot and a half tall, and very ugly, they work constantly, but never finish their work, and can cause rockslides.
Kobold like civilization?

Quote
Gwrach y Rhibyn: A winged black hag with black teeth that forebodes death. She can take the form of a lizard, and in that form eats babies. She can also turn into mist.
[MEGABEAST] ?

Quote
Fachen: A creature with half a body, split down the middle of it's torso, from top to bottom. It has a whole head, but it's head is terrifying, covered in jetblack feathers, and with a huge mouth. Enormously strong, in it's one arm the Fachen wields a magical chain that's capable of cutting through tree limbs. It can destroy an entire orchard in a single night with it's chain.

[MEGABEAST] ?  Hmm.. not sure if I could make a megabeast start with X equipment...   I could make it a super civilization with very low pop and long birth/child info.... with just this uber weapon, as their weapon. (Could do that with all the MEGABEAST suggestions actually..)
Quote

Boobrie: A giant predatory fae bird that haunts lakes and natural sources of salt. Resembles a giant loon, but with white markings, and the ability to roar.
Candidate for random creature or eat the dead civilization..

Quote
Tylwyth Teg: Golden-haired faeries of Wales. Neither entirely good or evil, but do kidnap children. Afraid of iron.

Jili Ffrwtan: Proud, and amorous, female members of the Tylwyth Teg. A bit like Rumplestiltskin, in that Jili Ffrwtan would take on work that other woman couldn't do, but would demand the woman say her name in 3 days' time, or forfeit everything they owned, including their husbands and children.
This may be troublesome... What do you think?
Quote
The Cailleach: One of the most powerful of all the Fae, the Cailleach is the queen of winter. A gigantic old woman who carries a mallot with which she shapes the hills and valleys of the land, she turns to stone with the coming spring, turning back when autumn arrives.

[MEGABEAST] or super civ with super hammer...  (Not active in Winter?)


Quote
Afanc: An enormous and hideous fae water demon. 
[MEGABEAST] or super civ?  Or regular civ?


Quote
Crom Cruach: "bent blood ", a powerful and ancient fae.

Crom Dubh: "bent black", another powerful and ancient fae.
[MEGABEAST] or super civ
Any differences?

Yea....  lets start with something easy other then the above to differentiate between some of these Fae folk...  the mass-genocide of Trees and Animals, Dwarf style... or the lack thereof.. panzy Elves... >.>

4: Do any of em revere wood like the DF Elves?  Or some variation of?
[trEE_CAP_DIPLOMACY]
[ETHICS:KILL_PLANTS:?]
[RESPECT_TREES]
HERBALIST
WOODCUTTER

5. How much.. 'respect' do they have for wild animals? Like DF Elves? Probably somewhere inbetween...
[RESPECT_ANIMALS]
[AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE]
HUNTER
TRAPPER
FISHER
PETS
MILKING

(Basically any info that would indicate if they would or would not do whatever in 4 and 5...  or nothing(which means that we leave at Dwarf default)

By Jah though.... without this... personally, I'd make a 'Fairy' civilization, slap some personalities and entity stuff that would make em carefree and chaotic... in a sense and call it a day. (Prone to being wiped out though... size 2 I gave em doesn't help either... Though it could be negated with enough [DAMBLOCK:?] and short child/baby time..)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 02:51:38 pm by Zangi »
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2009, 03:42:57 pm »

1: Not many, no. I've seen one example where a Braden Feasa was the result of an enchantment.

2: Not sure what you mean? Leipreachan were pretty much universally males.

3: More like a caste. The Meri-Morgan would be the more rare, but more civilized and peaceful, of the two types, while the merrows would be feral, with needle-sharp teeth and claws, that the Meri-Morgan lacks. Could be pet/trainable though, although the merrows are also intelligent fae.

4: Each Uisge has the ability to transform into a handsome man, with wet hair.

5: I would say just [Power]. Not powerful, physically.

6: A bit like kobolds, but not thieves, and very strong/fit, armed with mauls and picks. More like mountain gnomes, with very high stats, and high laborer skills.

7: Maybe semi-megabeast? Somewhat distructive, but more like the embodiment of a particularly bad omen.

8: Fachen would definitely work as a Megabeast. Your suggestion is a good one, and I think it would work. I suppose they could use other weapons, but I like the idea of them just using a "Fachen-chain".

9: Either/or.

10: You might just want to stick with the Tylwyth Teg. Jili Ffrwtan makes it more complicated to add.

11: Could be either. The Cailleach, in some tales, rules over other storm demons, the "Cailleachan", so there's your tiny civilization. Active only during late autumn through early spring.

12: Afanc is the proverbial Megabeast.

13: Megabeast would be more accurate, although another tiny civ would be interesting. I wish there were a way to make unique critters that didn't get killed off pretty much automatically, but in this case it'd probably be alright if they did, since historically, they probably existed as gods, long before even the Fae were codified as such.

The Spriggan and Ghillie Dubh would definitely qualify as "herbalist, respects trees, respects wildlife". Probably most of the other Fae as well. The Spriggan, Meri-Morgan (and maybe the merrows as well, but maybe not), Seonaidh, Ghillie Dubh, and The Cailleach would all probably be [AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE].

Gruagach would probably be capable of all of these, maybe the Leipreachan/Clurichaun too:
HUNTER
TRAPPER
FISHER
PETS
MILKING

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Zangi

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2009, 10:40:11 pm »

Ok...  here is a sample...

I figure I need to give the Wmach unique club-like weapons.  For their size.  And they all have loincloth, for the time being, so they won't be naked...  Lotta placeholder stuff for some of these.

Still need to work on profession, ethic, gear, personality, and symbol/sphere data.  But yea, its a start....  Tell me what you think... (Guess some will be easier for me to make then others...)

Wmach
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Bradan Feasa
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Gruagach

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Faeries (human sized), NOT "Fairies" (vermin)
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2009, 12:29:44 am »

That looks awesome! Really fine work, Zangi.

Wmach might get a high Damblock due to their being able to transform into stone? Maybe some fire resistance? Also, I think they're traditionally nocturnal and secretive.

I couldn't find the line on max age, but I may be missing it.

I'm not nitpicking, honest, this is excellent work.
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