Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[SirHoneyBadger]

This is a thread to discuss the Fae, the Fair Folk, the Daonie Sidhe, the Tuatha de Danaan, the Aelfyr, etc. etc. etc.

As in the (human-sized, or even larger) old gods of Ireland, Wales, and elsewhere, and their possible inclusion into the game, as Civs, Powers, etc.

Possibilities: These might be at or near (right under gods) the top of a sort of magical "foodchain"/ecosystem, that, instead of occupying space, possibly occupies time (and no, I'm not sure how that would be handled, but I have some ideas), with different "Faerie Courts" for the four seasons, for day (Seelie) and night (Unseelie), what have you.

Other beings aside from these "Noble/Royal" type faeries could also exist, ranging from the much smaller fairy vermin that's already in the game, to actual gods, as well as a host of other beings and critters, including fae animals.

Just the possibilities drawn from mythology alone would be nearly unlimited.

Such beings might have peculiarities and weaknesses (such as being more vulnerable to iron, and maybe silver), as well as strange powers and magicks, once the Magic Arc gets here.

They also might be very skilled, as a Civ, possibly only second to dwarfs in their forging abilities--imagine a civ that can make masterwork items, but can't handle iron or steel.

Faeries aren't typically portrayed as completely evil, or completely good. They're also often shown as a force for chaos, and can be extremely dangerous.

So they might exist in the game as a "neutral" civ that you can very occasionally trade with, but that could turn into deadly enemies at the drop of a hat.

With two (or more) ruling courts, there might be quite a few different factions to interact with--and to be wary of.

Faeries are also often depicted as living either underground, or 'Elsewhere', so they might be a good candidate for a competing underground Civ, or for the population of one of the Planes of Existence that we may be getting, sometime in the future.

[Neonivek]

Well then what you want to go to is... I THINK Queen Mab but it is probably someone else. I forgot her name but she is a pagan magic goddess who is depicted as a fairy and unlike most fairies is usually depicted as a benevolent (except in one movie)

Along with this using the original depiction of elves may be a great step in getting the Elf Mythos correctly.

Celtic Elves/fairies are also a good source of inspiration as they are dying due to existance (to put it simply... Ill have to read up on them)

Since you want to go this dirrection I probably should get more information. Fairies historically were usually evil little beings (or just annoying) until probably around the 17th Century England where there was a major shift where fairies were starting to be depicted as beautiful angelic beings.

Though it depends how you define Fairy... People have often lumped Elves, Fairies, Angels, Gnomes, Gods, and Changlings within that definition.

So we need a controlling definition for this topic.

[bjlong]

This would have the unfortunate effect of making the steep learning curve so steep that it would force players to climb a negative slope. It would probably work best as a mod. That said, working out what needs to happen before this could be modded in is a good idea.

E: not to say it wouldn't be hella fun. It would be.

[Neonivek]

An idea is that Fairies COULD be a Civilisation built to develop a template for Spherical Land Civilisations

Or rather Civilisations heavily reliant of Alligned lands.

Which could in turn help those who want more modding control

[Fensfield]

Neonivek's point there is actually pretty good o.o

That is, using Fairy ( what's this, the fourth preferred spelling for this sort of fairy in the topic? XD  Where's everyone got theirs from?  For my part it's from The Tale of Sir Orfeo ( 14th century or so? )  Where fairyland was the land the dead passed through ^^ ) as a template for similarly complex civilisations.  Certainly, I don't think they should be accepted as something to be modded straight off.. as this level of complexity goes, they're about as bog-standard as you're likely to get, and as Neonivek said, would - if applied 'officially' - provide a good jumping off point for similar, but more specialised mod races - or indeed similar official races.

That said, I've actually been trying to throw together a fantasy world lately, quite heavily focussed on fae concepts even if Fairy are themselves just another race.  So, a few ideas I had for that that might be interesting to throw at DF, should such be offered...

As SHB suggested, multiple sorts of fairy, if possible, would certainly be fun.  And something I mentioned before, would be - as some have already said here - a strong connection with aligned lands; or in my own ideas, ley lines ( and aligned lands by extension ).

One concept I had, in fact, was that Fairy, being otherworldly beings, don't actually survive very well in the 'mortal world'.  So while in their own plane, they'll pretty much live forever, their lifespans in the mortal world are quite limited.  Thus their few settlements on the mortal plane might very likely be centred on locations where ley lines cross and large amounts of otherworldly magic are present to reduce the harm of being in the wrong plane ( or just magically intense areas if ley lines aren't used ).  Perhaps the centre of their settlements might have some foci in fact, like an oak tree, for further spreading the power of the nexus they've built on.  From there you might even have Fairy settlements themselves having an Achilles heel.  Destroy their ley foci, and seriously reduce their abilities, maybe.

Oh and in turn I figured it might be fun if the aforementioned ley foci attracted fae vermin seeking the magical 'wellspring' in large numbers, either just doing as DF vermin do, or causing faerie trouble in and of themselves.

And a means of attack that pops to mind might be raising overgrowth in enemy settlements, overrunning them with magically raised plants or so?  Ala the Thief series' pagans.  Indeed, its a subject for another topic I guess, but little cult religions causing trouble might be fun.. and indeed, might get (misguided?) cults causing trouble on Fairy's behalf.

Oh and as for the worry about the difficulty curve, well, I think it might well be a given that some races may very likely come with a warning of 'Warning, highly complex, play a less fiddly one first, like Dwarves.' anyway, once additional races start getting put in.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Though it depends how you define Fairy... People have often lumped Elves, Fairies, Angels, Gnomes, Gods, and Changlings within that definition.

So we need a controlling definition for this topic.

That's why I tend to favor the idea of a ruling Court.
Or several comingling ones, rather than a single species, to add those additional political elements to the game. 

These guys might be in competition with the goblins over babies, which I think would be interesting, since the Fair Folk were the definitive "babysnatchers" of mythology.

Unlike the goblins, the Faeries might leave behind changelings--monstrous, or just apathetic "children", who were in reality faeries themselves, in disguise (makes for great spies).

Trolls did the same thing too, by the way, and were also traditionally vulnerable to iron (and were sometimes shown as allies or enemies of the Fae), but that's another long thread.

That's kind of an appealing idea, though, to make protection of children from the various kidnapper species a real priority--and then competition between them for the kids, maybe some trade too.

[bjlong]

My point of view was from trading with the fairies. You shouldn't suddenly have the caravan attack one of your dwarves because he has on a blue shirt and expect that new players will know what's going on.

[Fensfield]

Whyever not?  I admit, some form of warning or alert might be in order, but why the hell a fairy behaves the way it does ( should definitely be more complex though, rather than just randomly attacking or similar ) is all the better kept a mystery.

Better they get a reputation as chaotic, confusing little buggers, than be simple to predict as most other races are.  Indeed, I think whatever we go for, the most important asset to seize on would be fairy unpredictability.

[Fossaman]

You can even out that learning curve quite a bit by postponing fairy contact until x wealth or y fortress size, or even n years. At least, fairy contact other than random event sorts of things.

[Fieari]

Traditionally, you have a number of different courts.  While you'll find a Summer King and Winter Queen, you'll more commonly come across the "Lord of Light and Air" or "of Darkness and Air".  Lords of the Air being a biblical thing, if I'm not mistaken (and are considered VERY bad).  This can make for a very confusing system if you want something consistent... not that the fae have to be.

Personally, my favorite way of splitting up the courts is by giving each court a dominion over a classical element (also known as the four states of matter), and an alignment on one of D&D's two axis (renaming Good and Evil to Light and Darkness), for 16 total courts.

Court of Air and Light = Sun
Court of Air and Darkness = Moon
Court of Air and Chaos = Storms
Court of Air and Order = Clear Sky / Birds

Court of Earth and Light = Summer
Court of Earth and Darkness = Winter
Court of Earth and Chaos = Wilderness / Fall
Court of Earth and Law = Farming / Spring

Court of Water and Light = Rivers
Court of Water and Darkness = Ocean Depths
Court of Water and Chaos = Ocean Surface
Court of Water and Order = Wellsprings

Court of Fire and Light = Heaven
Court of Fire and Darkness = Hell
Court of Fire and Chaos = Abyss
Court of Fire and Order = Hearths / Home / Crafting


Yeah, a bit hackneyed, but it follows a system, and it -feels- fae to me.  Fae tend to be nature spirits after all-- personifications of forces beyond human control.  gods can fill this role too, but gods also tend to go along with human sorts of things too-- while I can't think of a "Fairy of War".

Anyway, just some things I've thought of, and tend to use in my own stories.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Fieari: I like your ideas, except that I'd rather see the following:

Winter replacing water

Summer replacing fire

Autumn replacing earth

and Spring replacing air.

For one, because I'd like to see the Faerie Courts tied into the seasons, but also because the 4 elements are done absolutely beyond death.

That, and air, earth, water, and fire are all already nicely represented in the game (done to death), and could just as easily be applied to another aspect of the game that would benefit more from them.

So you'd have Courts of Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Winter.

The light and the darkness part is already in the mythology, with the Seelie (Court of Day/Light) and the Unseelie (Court of Night/Darkness) ruling over the day and night, respectively.

Order and Chaos would be fine, except these are very much beings of chaos. Not necessarily evil, but essentially unpredictable, and aligned with unpredictable forces and magicks. Maybe instead of Order and Chaos, a division between Sunrise and Sunset (for the Court of Day) and Moonrise and Moonset (for the Court of Night)?

That would follow along the idea that these are beings living in time, instead of space, and it would also follow along with the traditional view that midday and midnight, as well as sunrise and sunset, are highpoints of magical activity and power.

[Fieari]

The reason I like having Order fae, is because a large portion of the mythology includes things like leaving cider out for the fairies of your orchard, so they won't get pissed that you're taking the apples from the trees.  Russian folkloric "spirits" (which parallel the fae quite well) include house spirits, spirits of chores, and of cooking, and that sort of thing.  Quite removed from wilderness spirits, yet of the same "species", so to speak.

[SirHoneyBadger]

That's a possibility...There were certainly "domestic" types of faeries.

Yeah, I'm somewhat aware of Russian folklore. Not as much as I'd like to be, but I know the basics.

Which is another good idea: biome-based faeries.

[inaluct]

I hate Merry Old England, so I find this idea absolutely abhorrent. If it were implemented in vanilla DF, I would stop playing.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I hate Merry Old England, so I find this idea absolutely abhorrent. If it were implemented in vanilla DF, I would stop playing.

That's ironic (and rather ignorant, no offense), considering that the subject of the thread is an exact reversal of the "Merry Old England" attitude.

The Shakespeareans, through the Victorians (1500-1900AD English Empire), were the main source of the idea that faeries were these little tiny flying sprites, instead of the old gods and dangerous spirits that the original myths portrayed.

So if this were ever actually implemented, DF would be considerably further away--not closer--than the thing you hate, since DF already has tiny little flying fairy vermin.

The beings this thread concerns itself with have their origin among such peoples as the Norse, the Germans, the Gauls, and the Celts (both Irish and Spanish), all historical enemies of "Merry Old England".