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[Spoonfeed]

When the map is filled, your options are to either join an alliance and build near them, or beg Toady to start a second world for us to play in.

These are all basic complaints I received as a GM on my brothers MMO server.   And you have never seen hell until 300 Brazilians show up on a server with the express intent of killing every single person who speaks English...

BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR

[The Scout]

300 brazilians = alot of dead dwarves at my fort from the 30 GCS, the 50 goblins the 20 demons, and the 500 humans.

[Derakon]

RedAlertFan, please don't bump threads unless you have something useful to add.

[eerr]

since this has already been trolled up from the depths:

why must the players fight each other constantly?

Too many people are making it sound as if each player is at each others throats, scrabbling for the last bit of gore in a newly dead dwarven civilization.

Thats not what dwarf fort is about, because that means you are winning, not having Fun.

no, a DF mmo will be about co-operation, alliances, and "sometimes" a skirmish or war. Perhaps even people ganging up on someone else, or against someone else.

But the real point of a DF mmo would be to play.
Together.

else you might as well go play WoW and do some grind, Civ 4 to sit back and slowly do things you vaguely think might win the game, Starcraft to guess your enemies strategy and attack when he isn't as strong.

But DF, the mmo would be about building Fortresses. At the same time.

[jaked122]

I'd say this should never ever ever ever ever be implemented in any form related to dwarf fortress.

[eerr]

I'd say this should never ever ever ever ever be implemented in any form related to dwarf fortress.

Tahin is working on the MUD right now.
It's not the same engine or look, however.
Ours is even worse : P

[Shaostoul]

Personally I wouldn't make it an MMO. I would make it something more like... a lan or group of friends only game. That way it can be paused it can be saved for later play and you could have a fortress.

I know fortresses utilize the pause a lot, but you don't HAVE to have it.

I think it's possible, but it'd be an entire rewrite of the game.

That ability to have the fortresses is the biggest thing that makes DF different.

[chucks]

God...please...no

[eerr]

God...please...no

no what? no smiley faces?

[waldo]

yes smily faces! wow it's been a while since i started this... anyways my original idea to fix the no pause would be to pause the world for about ten minutes out of the hour or something like that. that way you don't have problem like in WoW where people are peeing themselves because there just isn't any time between the raids or something.

and also i did mention that wars wouldn't be the only form of diplomacy, you just have to remember that for the most part it's easier to set up a simple interface for diplomacy, than to set up the mechanics for declaring war and how your dwarfs act when suddenly your best friends who have 100+ dwarfs in your fortress "for trading reasons" suddenly decide that they are your enemies.

[chinkeeyong]

Hey guys, has anyone contemplated the consequences if someone tries to flood the world with magma?

[eviscerator]

Well, I can imagine limited multiplayer, where two or three people play simultaneously in a pause-less version of the game.  You could even play on the same map!  Imagine, 3 forts being built in a 3x3 area.......

What would be weird is how it would handle embark overlap - you know, where you both were working on a piece of each others map, but not the whole thing. 

[Grendus]

I'm sorry, but this is a bad idea for several reasons.

1. MMO's require massive amounts of code and maintenance, as well as large amounts of customer support. Little kids with nothing better to do will try to hack the game, so the exploits must be patched. Currently, little assholes can only harass other players online, where they can be ignored. When players interact online in any capacity (even something so small as embarking next to a newbie and building fast to send sieges his way) you will have assholes pop up. VERY. FAST. You can't ignore another player when they actually have the power to effect your gameplay. This will require constant attention, which will require either player run intervention or Toady to spend money on full time support.

As a veteran of dozens of small MMO's and a recent escapee of WoW (it was a great game, but it's on the decline), I can tell you that immaturity+anonymity = bad things that make tentacle demons look like just "touchy-feely" guys. Some people only enjoy a game inasmuch as they can ruin other people game experience. While a single player game can support dozens if not hundreds of them before the community of the game breaksdown, MMO's can usually only support one or two per thousand players before the game just isn't fun anymore.

2. Because the game is no longer heavily moddable (unless you want to leave it as moddable when it goes online, in which case, you'll be invaded with 500 dwaves named Urist McPenis carrying AK-47's), new content must be constantly developed. Currently, when you get bored with the goblins, you can download orcs. When you get sick of burning elves, you can delete them and download High Elves. In an MMO based DF, you can't do that. Players would be bitching on the forums endlessly for Toady to "stop being lazy and develop new content". Currently, Toady is in charge of new mechanics, the players are mostly in charge of new content, and judging by some of Toady's design goals to move more into the raws he designed it with that very purpose in mind. You'd be removing one of the strengths of DF to introduce a possibly-fun-but-problematic feature.

It'd be fun, but it wouldn't work and definitely shouldn't be the direction of Toady's energy when there are more important things to do.

[waldo]

i'm sorry but your extremely negative, first of all if those people want to bitch about toady not updating for a long time then go right ahead. and for the most part it should be up to the player's to stop the trolls, idiots and bastards who want to lower the quality of game play, i mean technically it falls under protecting their own fortress, if that means raiding some punk with a cheap fort then dammit let's go burn that monkey to the ground.

and also the code, customer support, and maintenance doesn't have to be taken up directly by toady. that's what armok created slaves and underlings for (employees)

and really you wouldn't have to worry about invasions from npcs because the user generated gameplay would more than make up for what would be lacking when about 40 goblins come knocking at your door.

basically the point is this project is awesome and in theory it would make a kickass mmo, i don't think it ever will, but it seems like a waste if there's no player to player interaction outside of a forum and videos.

[Grendus]

i'm sorry but your extremely negative, first of all if those people want to bitch about toady not updating for a long time then go right ahead. and for the most part it should be up to the player's to stop the trolls, idiots and bastards who want to lower the quality of game play, i mean technically it falls under protecting their own fortress, if that means raiding some punk with a cheap fort then dammit let's go burn that monkey to the ground.

and also the code, customer support, and maintenance doesn't have to be taken up directly by toady. that's what armok created slaves and underlings for (employees)

and really you wouldn't have to worry about invasions from npcs because the user generated gameplay would more than make up for what would be lacking when about 40 goblins come knocking at your door.

basically the point is this project is awesome and in theory it would make a kickass mmo, i don't think it ever will, but it seems like a waste if there's no player to player interaction outside of a forum and videos.

I'm extremely negative because it's a poorly thought out idea. MMO's are not easy to make, not easy to maintain, and certainly not easy to control.

The point about content is that currently we control the content. That frees up a massive amount of Toady's time and gives us a ton of versatility. You want to trade all of that for online play. It's not a good trade, either the content would stagnate or the development would. This isn't just about player's bitching, players would be complaining because they'd be unhappy with the current content. Right now they can do something about it, in an MMO they wouldn't.

Sure it's up to the players, but we don't have much power beyond ignoring them. There's a reason you have GM's in game to deal with this crap, they get inundated with complaints. This could be alleviated by recruiting players to become pro-bono GM's, but they're harder to control. It would be another massive drain on Toady's time to deal with this, even if the players took the brunt of the workload. There's that much work involved.

Also, Toady won't let the players patch his code. We've asked, he said no.

Profit pretty much covered the issue with players dealing with the assholes, so I don't need to go into detail here. Basically, a well designed fort would be impenetrable, and if the guy decides to pick on all the other fortresses, there's nothing the people could do about it. If you were forced to deal with an alliance to protect yourself, you'd spend your days kowtowing to whoever could protect you. It just doesn't sound fun.

If DF was going to be an MMO, it would have to have been built as one from the ground up and probably would have needed more funding and more programmers. I think you vastly underestimate how difficult these things are to run.