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[Sketchy]

This could start out pretty simple. A research dwarf can be in a research workshop and make just about anything from anything, provided they have the appropriate craft skill. It takes three times as long to make an item for research, but it gives a chance for one of a few things to happen.
1) Faster item creation for the item type, craft type, or the material
2) Higher Item value for the item type, craft type, or material
3) New Items to craft altogether.

NOw it can go on to become more complex from here. You could have libraries or galleries of engravings describing the newly discovered processes. You could also have an aprentiship system that lets dwarf children become apprentices, gaining skill before they're able to wor on their own. (Apprentices would be allowed to haul, but only to deliver finished products from a workshop and gatehr raw materials, and only under the direction of their master.)
You could also have general teacher dwarves that teach children a variety of skills, as well as skills like negotiation and similar skills. (Perhaps the nobility skills would only be learnable by children born from noble dwarves?)

Then, in adventure mode, these books and engravings could be found, recorded, and sold to various entities, and in dwarf fortress mode, you could buy the various books and have a dwarf read them to create an engraving as well as gain the research benefits as well.

Engravings would be a far easier way for a dwarf to learn a researched process, but books are there as well, and you can't beat an apprenticeship when it comes to learning the collective research while the dwarf is otherwise worthless.

Oh, and research breakthroughs should be able to happen at normal workshops, but they'd only happen once for every six breakthroughs at a research workshop in the same amount of time. (Perhaps no research workshops, but rather making an item for research purposes?)
[ November 07, 2007: Message edited by: Sketchy ]

[ November 07, 2007: Message edited by: Sketchy ]

My spelling sucks.

[ November 07, 2007: Message edited by: Sketchy ]

[Morbo]

Research and the spreading of information through books sounds like an excellent idea. If 'fun' is ever implemented and dwarves need to have some fun with things like toys and zoo's, pools. Most of all recreational books. Books may inspire ideas or fey moods. Research could make fuel more effiecent or teach military dwarves new comabt moves.

The possibiltys are huge.

[Capntastic]

I dislike the idea of not only having to have skill to craft something, but having to have researched it.   It's another barrier to ceaitng things I want.  The idea of a non-physical 'tech tree' hindering what players want to build is bothersome.

[WillNZ]

It's not as bad if research carries over from fortress to fortress, but artificially reseting knowledge would be frustrating. I like the idea. The only problem is once you have a legendary craftsman with a fully-researched tech-tree he might churn out goods insanely fast. Unless, of course, skill level only effects the quality of the item while research effects the speed.

I would love the ability to link up various workshops to make large mega-shops or something. Each mega-shop would be lead by a foreman, below him the craftsmen and after that apprentices which would do the hauling for the regular craftsmen (but gain skill as well). A large, well-stocked well-researched megashop with experienced craftsman should churn out a great deal of stone. I did a post on this once, but no one responded.

[Sketchy]

quote:Originally posted by Capntastic:
<STRONG>I dislike the idea of not only having to have skill to craft something, but having to have researched it.   It's another barrier to ceaitng things I want.  The idea of a non-physical 'tech tree' hindering what players want to build is bothersome.</STRONG>

If you've researched something, you would be able to write it into a book (Scribes!) and then trade/offer it to caravans. Once it's traded/offered to a caravan, every caravan on that map has a chance to carry a copy of the same book.
I'm sure there would also be a stock of book too.
And, with research unlocked items, they may only be better versions of things that already exist, but it's kind of strange that a dabbling mechanic can make a mechanism on his first try, let alone some of the extremely advanced things that might be unlocked via research.

I supposed you could also choose to start with a few books when you carefully prepare.

OOooh. You could visit an abandoned fortress in adventure mode, record the engraving/loot the books, and sell them at other forts or towns, introducing them to the world research pool.

[ November 07, 2007: Message edited by: Sketchy ]

[Metalax]

One way this could work without rendering some items unavailable until researched, would be for research to open up new quality levels. So an initial fort can only produce standard quality items.

When a dwarf with the relevent skill reaches a certain level of skill, for example reaches a level where he would produce well-crafted items 50%-75% of the time, he will the next time asked to make a particular item spend longer on that item and when complete produce a  well-crafted version of the item and gain the knowledge to make future items of that type to well-crafted quality at his normal chance of doing so.

At this point this only affects that particular dwarf but if books/tablets are added and available, when the dwarf next goes on break he could scribe/inscribe a book/tablet on how to produce a particular item to a particular quality.

While such a book is present in the fortress, perhaps at a library building, all dwarves attempting to create that item may do so up to that quality, if they have sufficent skill at the normal rate.

Librarys of such tomes could also serve as places of learning where dwarves can study in order to gain skill, perhaps while on break. This could lead to dwarves having their own interests in various jobs such as one of your lowly haulers wanting to be a stonecarver spending all his free time studying until one day you notice he has achieved significant skill and is recruited to the ranks of the craftdwarves.

[Armok]

Repeat after me:

DWARF FORTERS IS NOT AN RTS!  :mad:

[Shades]

quote:Originally posted by Armok:
<STRONG>Repeat after me:

DWARF FORTERS IS NOT AN RTS!   :mad:</STRONG>

would help if you spelt your rant right but I kinda agree with not wanting any tech tree type stuff. Your dwarves already learn how to do the same items faster and better anyway so I'm not sure how much would be applicalble anyway.

Might be nice to be able to teach newbie dwarves how to be better rather than just making tonnes of an item though. Or to research into an item being the same as 'virtually' making it and not actually use precious resource, just gain in skill slowly.

[Fortunatos]

If *anything*, the ability to research, study, develop new items and create them better/faster should be left to the future human 'fortress' mode, as I feel Dwarves should have an innate ability to craft and gain experience quicker than humans.

But even then it doesn't sound like a very fun addition, more like a tedious feater simply to enable and simpify other features, copied from RTS games.

Books for entertainment and information-exchange are a good idea, however.

[Sketchy]

Then heck, just make dwarf research take 3 times as long to make the item as per normal, but give bonus experience AND writes a book/tablet to go into a library.
Forget technology. Although a dwarf that has done research might get some sort of extra bonus, it would be identical to the bonus gained from reading the book produced by the process.
The process might require blank paper/blank tablet though.

[ November 08, 2007: Message edited by: Sketchy ]

[qwertyuiopas]

The best use of a tech tree(in my opinion) would be to limit technology TYPES until others are advanced enough. Tech types should spread by caravan, but take at least 5 before the new tech may be used elsewhere.

such as, no electricity until other technology is very advanced(at least a 200 year wait for a SINGLE fortress), and then at least 5 years(5 dwarf caravans) before nearby fortress start to use it too. And other races get a delay penalty based on their relation to the fortress(dwarves' willingness to share their discoveries)

[BDR]

To a certain extent, progress in one branch of science influences progress in another, but to leave it at that is to oversimplify things drastically (in a not-necessarily-fun way and certainly not in a I-feel-like-I'm-there way).  Cultural, religious, and socioeconomic barriers (or lack thereof, or even encouragement) can change the capacity for understanding the way things work dramatically (and have, and still do, in the case of human development).  Electricity and gunpowder should be the sort of things that, assuming you've got both the resources and the ability to understand, as well as the kind of culture that's apt to look in the right direction instead of everywhere else first (for whatever reason), you will be able to access with enough prodding.  If your culture is lacking, you'll have to influence the way your people think somehow, and if you lack in resources/ability to understand, you'll have to develop your technological understanding more/import the resources needed.  And, of course, if you either don't have the ability to do either of those or don't want to do the work for the tech in the first place, you won't get it.  Of course, later on when others figure out the technology and either use it against you or try to sell it to you, you might find it a more necessary addition...

[Sketchy]

quote:Originally posted by BDR:
<STRONG>Wall of text goes here...</STRONG>

So you would have to research certain technologies first, or otherwise aquire them, in order to understand the more advnaced technologies?
How would that work? Would a dwarf first have to understand the less technology first before being able to understand a higher technology?

[qwertyuiopas]

Could a dwarf understand advanced robotics without understanding electricity? not as well or not at all.

[BDR]

qwerty: True, but what I'm talking about is the idea that it isn't *just* going to be that knowledge of electricity that makes it possible to build robotics.  Look at the discussion on gunpowder; according to the articles cited the Chinese figured it out much quicker than the English did, yet it wasn't like the English *couldn't* have figured it out if they had put their minds to it, they simply never did (until, of course, much later than the Chinese did).  I'm talking about having more than one potential barrier to making progress, not about lessening them.  A society that is designed around the idea that being backwards is superior, or that technology is evil or something along those lines isn't going to be as advanced as a society that puts research and understanding the mysteries of the world as their highest goals, and for different reasons than a society that is simply spending its time trying to develop fabled cures/potions/fountains of youth instead of working with the real world.  In my head, things like watching your scientist dwarf finish his last experiment with electricity such that you will be able to have a lightning rod, only to be beaten and put in the stocks by the ruling theocracy should happen (which, in order to be a success, would require you change the climate to be more favorable to science).