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[Myroc]

Vanilla DF actually already comes with melting and boiling points for the (smelted) metals, and some of them, such as iron, are indeed magma-safe. You can't use any of those for mechanisms though. They need to be constructed from rocks, and the only rocks in vanilla DF that are magma-safe are bauxite and raw adamantium.

I know you can only make mechanisms out of rock, but what i was suggesting was comparing the melting/boiling points of various metals in DF to real life and see if the are the same (which they probably will be, but just to make sure). There aren't only mechanisms you want magma safe.

[Great Cthulhu]

Modding in tungsten is a possibility. Tungstic acid could be created from wolframite in a distillery (with the addition of water), and then reduced in a smelter, into tungsten.

I'd prefer to keep Molten Rocks as just an update for the existing rocks, as some people may not want entirely new content. Tungsten might make an interesting addition for a "new minerals" kind of mod though.

[Great Cthulhu]

I know that some ores don't melt -- they decompose into simpler molecules. [...]

Limestone is a rather good example. The temperature at which Calcium itself melts, limestone being calcium carbonate, is 1115 degrees kelvin, or a mere 841.85 degrees Celsius. [...]

Yeah, I'm aware of the problem (though not the specifics in the case of limestone, thanks for the info!). Several of the minerals that I updated actually decompose at the melting point. (Or perhaps before, but I try to avoid that.) And of course many minerals vary so much in composition that the melting point of any specific specimen can be anywhere in a wide range.

I think we just have to accept that DF doesn't model those things very accurately. After all, you run into similar issues with booze (alcohol boils before water does) and steel (different melting point depending on the carbon content), and simplifying those hasn't made the game any less fun.

The important thing for me is that the values model the "spirit" of the process. I.e. the melting point is the point when the stuff becomes at least somewhat fluid and items made from it no longer function.

Sadly, since I'm just a layman without convenient access to a scientific library, I have to rely on google for data. If anyone with more knowledge wants to help improve my data, then I'd gladly accept.

Ampersand, do you think it'd be more accurate (assuming DF-like laws of physics to say that limestone doesn't have a melting point, but an ignite point at 1115 K?

[Great Cthulhu]

Vanilla DF actually already comes with melting and boiling points for the (smelted) metals, and some of them, such as iron, are indeed magma-safe. You can't use any of those for mechanisms though. They need to be constructed from rocks, and the only rocks in vanilla DF that are magma-safe are bauxite and raw adamantium.

I know you can only make mechanisms out of rock, but what i was suggesting was comparing the melting/boiling points of various metals in DF to real life and see if the are the same (which they probably will be, but just to make sure). There aren't only mechanisms you want magma safe.

Aha, sorry. I misunderstood.

Well, there's certainly no harm in double-checking. I won't be doing it though, that's way too much work.

[InsanityPrelude]

Finally, a possible use for all that alunite my dorfs keep digging up! Thank you.

[0x517A5D]

Ampersand, do you think it'd be more accurate (assuming DF-like laws of physics to say that limestone doesn't have a melting point, but an ignite point at 1115 K?

Not that you asked me, but I'll respond anyway.

In DF terms, I wouldn't like this.  The limestone shouldn't burst into flame and smoke for half a year, then disappear.

In real-world chemistry, it's a heat-driven reaction but I don't think it's exothermic (heat-producing), which is one of the requirements to consider a reaction to be combustion.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Maybe limestone could just sort of disintegrate into quicklime ash, when exposed to that level of heat?

[Great Cthulhu]

Finally, a possible use for all that alunite my dorfs keep digging up! Thank you.

You're welcome. Glad you like it.

[Great Cthulhu]

Ampersand, do you think it'd be more accurate (assuming DF-like laws of physics to say that limestone doesn't have a melting point, but an ignite point at 1115 K?

Not that you asked me, but I'll respond anyway.

Heh. Sorry, didn't mean to exclude anyone.

In DF terms, I wouldn't like this.  The limestone shouldn't burst into flame and smoke for half a year, then disappear.

In real-world chemistry, it's a heat-driven reaction but I don't think it's exothermic (heat-producing), which is one of the requirements to consider a reaction to be combustion.

Hmm, that's a good point, and wikipedia agrees with you. (If my understanding of Chemistry is to be trusted, which I'm not sure of. Positive enthalpy means endothermic, right?)

But would having the stuff melt be better? Or should we do something like SirHoneyBadger suggests?

Maybe limestone could just sort of disintegrate into quicklime ash, when exposed to that level of heat?

That sounds cool, but I'm wary of introducing new substances to the game. I'd like to keep this mod as minimal as possible. Still, if there's an easy way of doing this, I'm certainly interested in hearing how.

[Great Cthulhu]

I checked my source for limestone again, and it turns out I screwed up by thinking the melting point was in Celsius, while it was actually in Fahrenheit. It should have had the melting point that Ampersand stated all along. D'oh!

I changed it to 825 C, which is a little lower, based on wikipedia's melting point for calcium carbonate. So for now it'll melt on contact with magma. We can always change it if turning to ashes is more appropriate.

Since flint is just chert found in limestone or chalk formations, I decided to assume that they have identical thermal properties, and copied flint's melting point to chert. So now both are magma-safe.

Version 1.1 has been uploaded.

[Barag]

Now that bauxite isn't as special anymore, how about allowing it be to smelted into aluminum?

[Great Cthulhu]

It's actually very hard to get aluminium out of bauxite. You really need electricity to do it practically. (Admitted: practicalities don't concern dwarves. Wikipedia has a good piece on the details. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Production_and_refinement.

So while we can certainly mod it in, it wouldn't be appropriate to DF's default tech level.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Limestone ash might also be used in the manufacture of the ever-coveted cement/concrete, which *would* be tech-appropriate, since the Romans were using it.

Why anyone would want *more* stone--which is what it would probably boil down to, in a mod anyway--I haven't the faintest idea, but it has merit for realism.

[Great Cthulhu]

Fertilizer too. I'm not sure if it was done historically, but the tech behind it seems simple enough.

Still, how would one mod the game to get magma from melting limestone, and instead turning it into something else?

[SirHoneyBadger]

I suspect, for now, that it'd just have to be a reaction in a smelter, magma or otherwise. You'd put a piece of limestone, and a unit of fuel, in a smelter, and get out say 1-3 units of lime ash.