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[Normandy]

Instead of making better transport systems, better stack control, or even more complex tweaks to stone, why not simply add a designation to make the stone invisible? I mean if you really admit it, the only problem with a lot of stone lying around (other than FPS, but there are bigger FPS drains out there) is that it's ugly. Not seeing stone would make OCD people much happier, and the rest of us slightly happier, until more permanent measures can be taken.

[vanarbulax]

Yeah just a simple toggle would work. Noting ruins a fully engraved royal dinning room more than bits of stone lying around covering your engravings.

[JT]

I'd be happier with making stone a more significant nuisance than it is, rather than as a less significant nuisance.  As it is, dwarves can get away with mining out a whole mountain and dumping the refuse into a single tile of infinite capacity.

If stones (or any other object) in a tile slowed down the creatures entering them, and if garbage dumps could get filled up, then removing stones would be a useful, perhaps even critical task, and stone stockpiles could also be used to provide a form of "speed bump" in certain vulnerable places.

[Citizen of Erl]

Well, there are a couple of problems with that.

Firstly, there may be the problem of falling invisibles stones killing your dwarves. And there is the issue of an invisible stone being claimed or forbidden messing up your building efforts and causing all kinds of unneeded delays and cancellations.

Also, there really isn't a need for any kind of quick fix here. Stone can be dealt with in various ways and its presence doesn't cause actual gameplay detriments. So its probably better to wait for other things to get done so an actual solution can be arrived at, rather than waste time implementing an unnecessary ad-hoc "fix" to a non-problem and push everything else back.

[Mikademus]

Folks, the thread rules - they are just above the thread list fer crying out loud... Stones is in the top-three requests, did you search at all?!
http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Forums#Support_Existing_Threads

[Fedor]

quote:Originally posted by Mikademus:
<STRONG>Folks, the thread rules - they are just above the thread list fer crying out loud... Stones is in the top-three requests, did you search at all?!
http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Forums#Support_Existing_Threads</STRONG>

The existence of a voting thread for various suggestions does not mean there is no need for threads to discuss those suggestions.  This thread does not duplicate that one, although I agree that it duplicates others.

quote:Originally posted by Citizen of Erl:
<STRONG>Also, there really isn't a need for any kind of quick fix here. Stone can be dealt with in various ways and its presence doesn't cause actual gameplay detriments. So its probably better to wait for other things to get done so an actual solution can be arrived at, rather than waste time implementing an unnecessary ad-hoc "fix" to a non-problem and push everything else back.</STRONG>

Disagreed.  I personally don't have much of a problem with rock (it gets dumped), but stone clutter tops a lot of people's lists for game annoyance to judge from the amount of commentary about it.  You may agree or not agree about fixing it, but it IS a problem.

[Mikademus]

quote:Originally posted by Fedor:
[QB]The existence of a voting thread for various suggestions does not mean there is no need for threads to discuss those suggestions. This thread does not duplicate that one, although I agree that it duplicates others.QB]

Feel free to add more stone threads to the wiki page.

[Lyrax]

See the problem with making stone invisible is that it affects the game.  Stones on the ground prevent anything from growing there, for example.  I can see this frustrating a new player to no end whatsoever.

[Capntastic]

I'm against this simply because it's a jerry-rig interface-based solution for a problem that should be handled elegantly with mechanics.

[Shamasu]

As a person completely obsessed with stone management, this solution would not work. I would still know it's there and it would still bug me.

[Basilisk]

quote:Originally posted by Shamasu:
<STRONG>As a person completely obsessed with stone management, this solution would not work. I would still know it's there and it would still bug me.</STRONG>

I agree. The stone haunts me.

Another idea though, if a stone is blocking a construction site, couldn't the mason just push it to the side a bit?

[Ralgor]

I wouldn't mind being able to make stone disappear from the screen, just to be able to see my fortress.

That said, while it is a bit silly to be able to stack an infinite about of rock on one tile, it isn't crazy to suggest that stone stockpiles (and other stockpiles for that matter) should be able to stack items to a certain extent.  I mean, if a dwarf can fit in one tile, surely a few chairs could be stacked in the same spot, even if it ended up blocking the tile.  I could imagine large piles of stone right outside the entrance to a fortress.

All we would need then is the ability to "Construct wheelbarrow" at the mason!  

Taking the item-as-transport idea further, maybe we could get the ability to build rails out of metal, and carts.  Dwarves could then fill the carts and haul distant ore/stone out that way.

Edit: I just noticed another thread put forward the rails/cart/train idea.  I didn't intentionally rip off his idea.  

[ April 23, 2008: Message edited by: Ralgor ]

[Derakon]

quote:Originally posted by Basilisk:
<STRONG>Another idea though, if a stone is blocking a construction site, couldn't the mason just push it to the side a bit?</STRONG>

They can already do this, so long as the item in question is not already claimed for a task or forbidden.

[Drunken]

quote:Originally posted by JT:
<STRONG>I'd be happier with making stone a more significant nuisance than it is, rather than as a less significant nuisance.  As it is, dwarves can get away with mining out a whole mountain and dumping the refuse into a single tile of infinite capacity.

If stones (or any other object) in a tile slowed down the creatures entering them, and if garbage dumps could get filled up, then removing stones would be a useful, perhaps even critical task, and stone stockpiles could also be used to provide a form of "speed bump" in certain vulnerable places.</STRONG>

JT would you care to vote for this on the top 3 suggestions thread? I have posted about this at length giving several ways that stone management could be made more difficult (realistic) but as yet I am the only person to have voted for it in either thread. The idea is titled 'more annoying stone management'

[Narmio]

I think that idea, Drunken, would get more support if you presented it as "More realistic dumping zone handling" rather than "make excess stone more of a hassle!".  I know you use the terms interchangeably, but changing how dumping zones work sounds a lot better to everyone else!

Only hardcore simulationists and masochists are going to vote for more annoying stone management, but a more interesting garbage dump system is a different matter.