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[Squirrelloid]

A discussion about sensible elections was held quite a while ago and is about a somewhat different issue.

Problem: Children have more free time than any adult ever will, and they spend much of their time socializing.  This means they're friends with more dwarves in the fort than any adult.  They also have awesome social skills.

Child grows up.  Child has a far better chance at winning the election than older individuals.

This is a serious problem because its really weird that young unproven dwarves end up in a position where they're responsible for the whole fortress.  Virtually all my fortresses end up with a recently grown peasant becoming mayor, sometimes with a chain of changes in mayorship to younger and younger dwarves.

Solution: Implement some kind of prestige or reputation meter that takes into account how skilled a dwarf is and other feats considered important (notable kills perhaps?).  Possibly attach a value to *age*.  I mean, yes, eventually someone born and raised in the fortress should be able to become mayor, but not when they're *13*.

[Aquillion]

Let's see...  First of all, the things you've done in your job already should count in any elections to keep (or regain) that position.  In the real world, politicians boast about their achievements.  In Dwarf Fortress, if your trader has gotten good deals in the past, or if your mayor has talked many dwarves out of a rage successfully, that should help them in elections.  Conversely, if things have gone wrong and they did their job poorly, that should be counted against them.  This is good because it's a realistic way to, eventually, bias the elections towards people who are better at the job (at least to an extent.)

Second, in terms of things that should help...  your highest skill should give you a bonus, especially if it's legendary.

The number of masterworks you've created should count for a big bonus, since it means a lot in Dwarven society.  Creating an artifact should count big time, too.

If you've destroyed things in a tantrum (or even if you've just tantrumed too much in general) that should count against you.  (Nobody likes a psychotic mayor.)  Past crimes should count against you in general.

There should be a minimum 'socially acceptable' age for most positions, the further below which you are, the more older dwarves hold it against you.

[Pilsu]

Everybody voting for the weaver just because he made lots of nice cloth and hasn't spoken to anyone in 10 years doesn't make any more sense

Kids should make friends easier if anything. However, only with other kids reasonably close to their age

[Squirrelloid]

Everybody voting for the weaver just because he made lots of nice cloth and hasn't spoken to anyone in 10 years doesn't make any more sense

Kids should make friends easier if anything. However, only with other kids reasonably close to their age

Whether or not making said weaver mayor makes any sense depends on dwarven values.  I can certainly imagine a social structure that did make him mayor.  ('He's a skilled craftsman (=respect) and his lack of politicking clearly indicates he doesn't want the job, which means he's the best candidate for it.')

But I absolutely cannot wrap my head around 13 year olds becoming mayor.  It totally breaks immersion.

[Aquillion]

Everybody voting for the weaver just because he made lots of nice cloth and hasn't spoken to anyone in 10 years doesn't make any more sense

Kids should make friends easier if anything. However, only with other kids reasonably close to their age

He hasn't just "made lots of nice cloth", he has produced countless masterpieces.  His weavings are heirlooms that people will treasure for generations.  His weaving ability is legend, and a big part of what makes the fortress as famous as it is.  Many people who immigrated to the fortress likely did so specifically because they heard tales of the incredible value of his weavings.  Masterworks are, basically, a big deal.

[Granite26]

I think that you are misplacing your complaint.  The issue isn't that kids have more friends or social interaction skills, it's that adults don't have enough.

I think once separating social skills from physical attributes is implimented, it should be reasonable to start adults (original 7 and immigrants) with sufficient social skills that kids don't surpass adults so much as train up to an adult average level.

Friends is a similar issue.  Presumably children do not vote.  So the man-child is being compared favorably to the recent immigrant (winning there seems reasonable) and to the members of the original 7.  I'm not sure that the original 7 should have any mythic importance in fortress politics, but that seems like the correct balancer there.


That said, I'm not averse to sigma ((skill level)^2) and #Masterworks both adding to a dwarf's perceived political stature

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

My mayor is epic.
All she does is party and eat.

[Hectonkhyres]

My mayor is epic.
All she does is party and eat.

So you have an eight hundred pound dwarfess plopped in the middle of your legendary dining room shoveling dwarven cheese roasts into her maw so fast she doesn't realize that she swallowed some skulking filth until she passes a -copper dagger-. It like the bastard child of Anna Nicole and Jabba the Hut.
...
Awesome.

[praguepride]

She'd get my vote

[LegoLord]

I think that you are misplacing your complaint.  The issue isn't that kids have more friends or social interaction skills, it's that adults don't have enough.

I think once separating social skills from physical attributes is implimented, it should be reasonable to start adults (original 7 and immigrants) with sufficient social skills that kids don't surpass adults so much as train up to an adult average level.

Friends is a similar issue.  Presumably children do not vote.  So the man-child is being compared favorably to the recent immigrant (winning there seems reasonable) and to the members of the original 7.  I'm not sure that the original 7 should have any mythic importance in fortress politics, but that seems like the correct balancer there.


That said, I'm not averse to sigma ((skill level)^2) and #Masterworks both adding to a dwarf's perceived political stature

A more realistic method of electing the mayor would still be nice, nevertheless.

[Superlagg]

Everybody voting for the weaver just because he made lots of nice cloth and hasn't spoken to anyone in 10 years doesn't make any more sense

Though, it would be totally in-character for someone to vote for him because he admired a fine silk sock lately.

[LegoLord]

Everybody voting for the weaver just because he made lots of nice cloth and hasn't spoken to anyone in 10 years doesn't make any more sense

Though, it would be totally in-character for someone to vote for him because he admired a fine silk sock lately.

On top of that, the suggestion was more complex than Pilsu is implying it is with that counterargument.

[krumlink]

Everybody voting for the weaver just because he made lots of nice cloth and hasn't spoken to anyone in 10 years doesn't make any more sense

Kids should make friends easier if anything. However, only with other kids reasonably close to their age

He hasn't just "made lots of nice cloth", he has produced countless masterpieces.  His weavings are heirlooms that people will treasure for generations.  His weaving ability is legend, and a big part of what makes the fortress as famous as it is.  Many people who immigrated to the fortress likely did so specifically because they heard tales of the incredible value of his weavings.  Masterworks are, basically, a big deal.

I cant imagine that "the dwarf is surrounded by  elephants. The elephants are striking down the dwarf" would be very likable.

[Qloos]

What I'd want to see is aggressive and sly dwarfs roughing up other dwarfs into voting for them.  As the race narrows and a few dwarfs become clear leaders in the race to the election, possible tantrums and assassination attempts would be cool. 

So a few months before the vote, dwarfs are given a "vote for Urist" thought or "vote for Guban" thought out of a select 5% of the most likely candidates.  Those candidates then focus their free time into swaying more dwarfs into voting for them with speeches and other maneuvers.

End it all off with a summary of how many votes each Dwarf got that was running for mayor and tada!

[krumlink]

Urist threatening to pull all the floodgate control levers?