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Author Topic: TES V: What should it not do?  (Read 8816 times)

Mephisto

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2009, 03:32:20 pm »

I can't remember if Oblivion was like Morrowind in this respect, but no saran-wrapped magic items! That's possibly one of the worst effects they could do.
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Neonivek

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2009, 03:38:28 pm »

Quote
What I liked about the magic system was that there wasn't firebolt 1, firebolt 2

Nope instead there was a: Firebolt 2.5, Firebolt Alpha 2, Firebolt 2, Firebolt 2b

Which was somewhat of a problem.

Spells were expencive.
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Granite26

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2009, 03:41:40 pm »

Only if you're playing it like Pokemon

Neonivek

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2009, 03:46:48 pm »

Only if you're playing it like Pokemon

Ehh it is mostly because while your raising your magic skills you will hit a slump somewhere between powerful but WAY TOO EXPENCIVE spells and feasable but not powerful enough.

Oddly I find the powerful but completely magic draining spells not to be powerful enough.
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Granite26

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2009, 03:51:09 pm »

I've never used magic for anything except utility (Light, Infravision, Feather(I LOVE FEATHER), Healing) so I can't speak to that...

Neonivek

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2009, 03:56:28 pm »

I've never used magic for anything except utility (Light, Infravision, Feather(I LOVE FEATHER), Healing) so I can't speak to that...

For the most part... your going to want to custom those.

Apart from mission spells you usually got get ones that last long enough

Or you get ones that last too long compared that you only need them for a second.
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Aqizzar

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2009, 04:18:18 pm »

While being able to construct your own class is of course a hallmark of the series and one of it's best features, it kind of falls on it's face in Oblivion, because by the time you get out of the mandatory tutorial, you're pretty well committed to being a Spellsword anyway.

One of the things I'd like to see is some kind of skill synergy.  So if I have say 55 in Heavy Armor, I can put Light Armor on and be at least marginally effective with it.  Or I'm good with short blades, some of that translates into long blades.  I for one appreciated Oblivion combining Axes and Maces into one skill.


The thing that has bothered me since daggerfall moved to morrowind is:

They reduce complexity to increase graphics.
They reduced the number of skills. Oblivion saw an ever greater decrease.
They reduced freedom.

Care to explain some of that vitriol?  I'm going to commit a cardinal sin and criticize Daggerfall now.

There was no freedom in Daggerfall.  There, I said it.  Oh sure, you could follow the main questline, but that's any RPG.  Other than that, you could do the same four quests for any given guild over and over, to after months of game time, have access to a couple more shops.

Gameplay consisted of madly throwing the mouse back and forth, hoping you were actually standing at a range your hitboxes would connect.  Or throwing area effect spells around, because plain projectiles couldn't detect crap.  All this in dungeons that looked like a pile of mating squid, full of angry zombies that got stuck in level architecture, differentiated only by texturing and which five random structure templates the map used.  Though the main quest dungeons did have some cool set-pieces.

And of course, the engine itself was a klunky, ass-ugly, bug riven mess even for it's day.  Graphics glitches, save corruption, broken floors, you name it.  One reason why most of the skills were cut out for Morrowind was that they didn't do anything in the first place.  And armor skills didn't exist yet, so there was no reason not to wear the best platemail you could find, because all equipment was just a straight progression.

Now don't get me wrong, I got Daggerfall when I was 10 and I played the crap out of it for years.  I only stopped because I couldn't get it to work in XP.  Heartbreaking.  But by any objective measure, it was a crap game that Morrowind, even in context, vastly improved upon.  A giant skill list or an abundance of details does not "complexity" make, nor does complexity necessarily translate into entertaining gameplay.  I think the core of Oblivion was on the right track, but they real lazy about world building and quality control.  The same model, but with loads more content, balancing, and attention to refinement would have made it a great game.  That's what I'm hoping for.
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Soulwynd

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2009, 05:17:19 pm »

Care to explain some of that vitriol?  I'm going to commit a cardinal sin and criticize Daggerfall now.
I meant that as in the progression of the game. The move from daggerfall to morrowind didn't bother me as much as morrowind to oblivion. Daggerfall wasn't perfect and most of the times wasn't even good, course my memory is polluted by mods, I can't even remember what the raw original was like. Dungeon size culling being the most important thing. I hated the gigantic dungeons but I didn't mind them using the same building blocks. But I did miss the dynamic content over the static one morrowind+ offered. I missed being able to go anywhere in a gigantic world, even if it was all alike. As for the main quest being linear, I didn't like that for any of the tes. I didn't like the mouse jerking attack, but if it was more like die by the sword, I'd like it. Which could have been an awesome move for morrowind.

I'm hoping for 0% balance, 100% dynamic content. 100% dynamic, random, non-linear quests.

Nothing I will be getting.
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DeKaFu

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2009, 08:14:00 pm »

Things TES V should not do:

It should not have that awful level-scaling that Oblivion did.
It really sucks having to try not to level so that you don't have Daedra spawning every 50 feet when you're still fleeing at the sight of a boar. Oh, and items too, but items never bothered me as much as being unable to survive walking down the street because I chose stealth as a major skill.

It should not have every major city fast-travelable-to as soon as you walk out of the tutorial.
I'm not one of those people fanatically opposed to fast travel, though I did enjoy Morrowind's take on it. Honestly though, you should only be able to teleport to places you've already been.

It should not not have spears and crossbows.
These are basically my two favourite weapons. ):

It should not not have werewolves.
You break my heart, Oblivion. It has a hole in it now. A hole shaped like a slavering werebeast.
It's a pretty intricate hole.

It should not not have digitigrade feet for the lizardmen and kittyfolk.
Honestly, if a nice pair of pants can magically morph into the ugliest skirt in the world on my female character, a nice pair of boots can magically morph into an armored pair of fancy footguards for our toe-walking friends.

..Yes, this is very important.

...So yeah, basically take all the cool stuff Morrowind had and transplant it into Oblivion's technology level. Oh, and ditch the generic-fantasy crud.

I played Oblivion first, then Morrowind, and my opinion is basically that I like them both a lot and think they're about equally good. It's just a shame that Oblivion really has no excuse not to be better.
It nullified all progress by removing as many features as it added.
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Soulwynd

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2009, 08:35:57 pm »

Werewolves and vampires are part of the TES world.

I think I will unpack my daggerfall copy and start playing again.
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Roundabout Lout

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2009, 11:33:07 pm »

One thing that Daggerfall did pretty well was character creation. Custom classes meant more than picking which attributes you'd favor, as you could customize exactly how many points went into what. Also, there were advantages and disadvantages you could take that would effect your play style and how quickly you would level up. While not done perfectly, it was better IMO than Morrowind chargen, and WAY better than Oblivion's.

TES V should not have dumbed down character creation and broken leveling.

IV's chargen is pick an archetype (mage, warrior, thief) two attributes, and seven skills. That's it. And we all know how shitty leveling up is, which was also found in Morrowind, which at least had three tiers of skills. (can be fixed in mods of questionable quality)

TES V should not rape the magic system of earlier games.

Magic in Oblivion was seriously lacking. Spells removed, limits on what spells you could cast based on 25 pt. magic skill intervals. Oh, I can't cast this until destruction is 50? Would you prefer if I made a warrior character instead?
 Also, spellmaking and enchanting were crippled. One thing I loved in Morrowind was the ability to capture large souls for the purpose of creating super items and spells. I made one spell that combined fire, cold, shock, and soul trap into one target spell, and the various effects swirled around each other in an impressive cloud of energy. With 50 magnitude, Balmora didn't stand a chance ;D

I could go on for days about the parts of IV that piss me off. I didn't even mention scaling, nonsensical economy, AI, crappy animations, etc. Mods helped, but were just not enough to save this game for me. And I'm not expecting Bethesda will ever care enough to make V a good game.  :'(
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 11:36:59 pm by yougiedeggs »
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Servant Corps

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2009, 11:48:24 pm »

Why is scaling bad? I mean, it just means you're fighting much more powerful enemies. So, instead of killing a regular rat, you are killing the God of the Vermin. And killing the God of the Vermin is cooler than killing a regular rat, even though, in essence, battling the God and battling the rat would be the same thing...
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Neonivek

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2009, 11:51:16 pm »

Why is scaling bad? I mean, it just means you're fighting much more powerful enemies. So, instead of killing a regular rat, you are killing the God of the Vermin. And killing the God of the Vermin is cooler than killing a regular rat, even though, in essence, battling the God and battling the rat would be the same thing...

Because you could be farming in a field of roses... and BOOM because your a great farmer... suddenly the ordinary rats that were in your field are the god of rats.

The problem is that the game Scaled no matter what skill you raised. You take time out of adventuring to increase that Alchemy skill you have been ignoring? Well good luck fighting ordinary enemies without fiddling with the difficulty setting.
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Duke 2.0

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2009, 11:55:55 pm »

 Not to mention it makes no sense that the god of rats is wandering around the countryside as well as his extensive brood. Rats are rats. There are some strong rats, but that is as far as they should go. Demons are demons. We do not need demons that lack the skills to survive in a world of pain and magma. They should be tough. You will need a minimum level to enter.

 Morrowind did Daedra as things to fear. Even at a high level with a Daedric Dai-Katana I always avoided large groups. Even two would mess me up badly, even if I could take one out in three hits and half the countryside in one.
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Ampersand

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Re: TES V: What should it not do?
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2009, 12:14:08 am »

no "I have been asked to find braygoths amulet, I've snuck into the thief's house, now I need to search the entire place for OH WAIT QUEST COMPASS LOL"
I agree with the no quest compass, but when I ask someone about a location and they explain to me where it is, I would appreciate if it appeared on the map. I'm looking at you, Morrowind.

The world also has to be bigger too. Morrowind was at least four times larger than Cyrodill. They also need the open cities from Morrowind. I know why they did it, to prevent people from getting massacred by high level monsters, but that loading screen every time I enter a city's walls is quite jarring, and as mods indicate, quite unnecessary.
Yes, please. While it might be fun to have a 1:1 scale world for a while, it might eventually get boring, though. Imagine if you're too poor to afford quick transport and you've got to walk from Morrowind to Valenwood then swim to Summerset Isles or Pyandonea.

Something I'd like to see added - Pyandonea, mentioned above, or maybe the sunken ruins of Yokuda.
Link to a map, as it seems that Photobucket doesn't like hotlinking to others' accounts.

What I find amusing about that map is that the whole game of Morrowind takes place in Vvardenfell. which is only about five times larger than the Imperial City island, and yet all of Vvardenfell manages to be bigger than all of Cyrodiil
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