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Author Topic: Unahppy dwarves emigrate  (Read 3787 times)

yooperdude

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Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« on: March 08, 2009, 12:55:44 pm »

I just finished my first fortress, and as is guaranteed, I lost. I had a great deal of fun and really loved the process. The downfall was a series of chain tantrums, insanities, suicides and berserks all set off when a couple of soldiers died during a goblin raid. The raid finished nicely but once the dwarves starting rampaging the corpses, miasma, dead pets and dead people was just too much.

My thought is that in that situation some people will just give up and leave. Rather then having a chain reaction of death and despair some of your depressed dwarves would simply head back to the mountainhome. Leave insanity and berserking for those that are wickedly insane, stolen children, dead spouses and the like.

It seems that it could help self regulate the system by preventing that tipping point. Rather then considering it a closed system that only grows with the addition of migrants and shrinks with death, allow a fluid migration to happen depending on conditions. Rent too high? Move back to the mountainhome. Constant death? Move in with the humans. It would also be interesting to see folks go on pilgrimages/adventures/vacations, could come back with unique skills, items, or stories.


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inaluct

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2009, 01:48:19 pm »

I think we've talked about this before. Still a good idea, though.

You might be able to deport dwarves by catapulting them out of the map with a drawbridge, come to think of it. Not very convenient, but it sounds pretty fun.
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profit

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2009, 08:42:23 pm »

I just finished my first fortress, and as is guaranteed, I lost. I had a great deal of fun and really loved the process. The downfall was a series of chain tantrums, insanities, suicides and berserks all set off when a couple of soldiers died during a goblin raid. The raid finished nicely but once the dwarves starting rampaging the corpses, miasma, dead pets and dead people was just too much.

My thought is that in that situation some people will just give up and leave. Rather then having a chain reaction of death and despair some of your depressed dwarves would simply head back to the mountainhome. Leave insanity and berserking for those that are wickedly insane, stolen children, dead spouses and the like.

It seems that it could help self regulate the system by preventing that tipping point. Rather then considering it a closed system that only grows with the addition of migrants and shrinks with death, allow a fluid migration to happen depending on conditions. Rent too high? Move back to the mountainhome. Constant death? Move in with the humans. It would also be interesting to see folks go on pilgrimages/adventures/vacations, could come back with unique skills, items, or stories.
LOL this is why you never allow dwarfs to socialize.

But you can overcome deaths with some nice rooms and making them all legendary pump operators so they do not have to pay rent.

A good dining room with a legendary +5 brewer also helps

Still though I can see the idea as a great way to handle dwarves becoming miserable instead of going insane.  When they are fed up, there is no killing spree, but they go byebye.



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Pilsu

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2009, 10:19:18 am »

Only if it's effectively an alternative for insanity
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praguepride

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2009, 10:49:30 am »

Springboarding off of this idea, has anyone ever played Tropico? It's a game where you're a dictator/el presidente of  the carribbean island Tropico. It has a similar population system to DF in that you gain people by either having them be born OR by attracting immagrants based on your islands prosperity. I think it has a good handle on immigration/emmigration, so here are the basic points.

#1 At the start, immigration and emmigration are uncontrollable. You have no control over who comes and who goes. This is similar to DF now (except there is no emmigration system). Basically unhappy workers either choose to stay or leave depending on their personality traits. Hostile and stubborn people stay while passive and compromising people will choose to leave rather then "stick it out".

#2 WIth the building of a structure in Tropico (or in this case a noble perhaps, perhaps your own Liason to travel abroad) you get the ability to control immigration and emmigration to various degrees depending on the skills of the worker assigned to the immigration office. You can choose to

A) Increase immigration overall, with the potential of add +50% to immigrant waves with fully staffed, max skill immigration officers

B) Increase skilled workers. In DF this could mean selecting to focus on a broad category (Miner, Woodworker, Stoneworker, Ranger, Metalsmith, Jeweler, Craftsdwarf, Administrator, Fishery Worker, Farmer, Engineer, Military) and have an increased chance of attracting members of that profession (in Tropico, maxed out skills and workers resulted in +25% chance of having a "Novice" and a +15% chance of having a "Specialist" (i.e. the people who just have one skill at name value)).

C) Increase emmigration. This resulted in a greater percentage (+25%) of unhappy workers had a chance of leaving rather then going beserk (in Tropico they become rebels and fight against you instead of just going berserk and killing everyone...actually it was pretty much the same :D)

D) Stop Emmigration completely. With maxed out skills this would block 100% of emmigration, meaning that nobody would leave.

E) Stop Immigration completely. With maxed out skills it would block 100% of immigration.

Now the challenge was you could only select (1), so you had to decide what you wanted to do. I think this logical system could easily be applied to the DF model (actual code is a whole 'nother matter) in that the system worked very well and allowed different people to customize their game experiences. This could be a setting off of the noble screen where you appoint an "immigration administrator" who can choose to work on one of the above options. It would use the broker skills, although the gaining of it would be based on successful use instead of just flat skill points like the record keeper is. I.e. whenever the immigration officer's influence actually changes the outcome of an immigration/emmigration wave, the immigration officer would gain XP. Similar to how marksmen gain XP when they hit stuff.


Once overland movement gets established, you could seperate the immigration and emmigration officer duties. The emmigrator officer could just be the mayor, who depending on his skill urges dwarves to leave rather then go beserk and kill everyone. He'll do his best to make the angry dwarf happy, but as a "last resort" might be able to mitigate the angry deserves beserker tendancies. Meanwhile, the Immigration dwarf (now a Liason) would actually travel the world map to the other dwarf cities (and maybe elven and human once that gets established as well). You can assign him guards and they'll leave for X seasons (2 makes sense), go out and travel and influence and possibly get eaten by skeletal giant eagles, but if they make it back they'll bring back either

A) An extra batch of immigrants, same old same old except you might be able to get 2 batchs in one season this way
B) A few highly skilled immigrants (one or two ranks up from your typical immigrant)
C) Non-dwarven immigrants (maybe a human woodsman or an elven archer)
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Man, dwarves are such a**holes!

Even automatic genocide would be a better approach

Pilsu

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2009, 10:54:36 am »

C) Non-dwarven immigrants (maybe a human woodsman or an elven archer)

It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up

Refugees, sure
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praguepride

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2009, 10:59:02 am »

It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up

Refugees, sure

There has been talk about having non-dwarven migrants, but Toady said they were being treated like pets. I don't really see the bug but apparently it's still in the works. What would happen is that you'd specifically send out your Liason for a specific reason. Hence the options. You can go for massive numbers with option A, try to round out your skillset with Option B, or go for the mystery box with Option C.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 12:13:06 pm by praguepride »
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Man, dwarves are such a**holes!

Even automatic genocide would be a better approach

suicidal_dorf

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2009, 05:48:03 am »

I'd support being able to pick general types of immigrants. As in I'd be able to get what I wanted (more smitsh for example) rather than more bonecrafters (in a fort where I already have 6 legendaries there). Also to clamp down on migration, so less dwarves immigrate (but still come?). Also for unhappy but not tantruming dwarves to emigrate (after you're above a certain pop cap anyway).
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bobthepeanut

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2009, 07:14:38 am »

It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up

Refugees, sure

There has been talk about having non-dwarven migrants, but Toady said they were being treated like pets. I don't really see the bug but apparently it's still in the works. What would happen is that you'd specifically send out your Liason for a specific reason. Hence the options. You can go for massive numbers with option A, try to round out your skillset with Option B, or go for the mystery box with Option C.

MYSTERY BOX! MYSTERY BOX!
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praguepride

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2009, 08:28:10 am »

It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up

Refugees, sure

There has been talk about having non-dwarven migrants, but Toady said they were being treated like pets. I don't really see the bug but apparently it's still in the works. What would happen is that you'd specifically send out your Liason for a specific reason. Hence the options. You can go for massive numbers with option A, try to round out your skillset with Option B, or go for the mystery box with Option C.

MYSTERY BOX! MYSTERY BOX!


You've won... A BRAND NEW HUMAN PET! His name is Stumpy, some assembly required :D
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Man, dwarves are such a**holes!

Even automatic genocide would be a better approach

zchris13

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2009, 08:28:18 pm »

Stumpy got drownded.  In case you have been in the box with stumpy.
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krumlink

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2009, 08:30:00 pm »

I think you should be able to select if you want them to emigrate or not, otherwise some fortresses (such as YOURS) will empty rather quickly. :D
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LegoLord

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2009, 08:33:32 pm »

C) Non-dwarven immigrants (maybe a human woodsman or an elven archer)

It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up

Refugees, sure
Dwarven fort denying potentially useful human workers/warriors simply on the basis that they are neither refugees nor human?  That's a bit . . . stupid.  Sorry, but it is.
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Squirrelloid

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2009, 08:39:37 pm »

It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up

Refugees, sure

There has been talk about having non-dwarven migrants, but Toady said they were being treated like pets. I don't really see the bug but apparently it's still in the works. What would happen is that you'd specifically send out your Liason for a specific reason. Hence the options. You can go for massive numbers with option A, try to round out your skillset with Option B, or go for the mystery box with Option C.

MYSTERY BOX! MYSTERY BOX!

Stupid! You so stupid!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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krumlink

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Re: Unahppy dwarves emigrate
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2009, 08:49:28 pm »

C) Non-dwarven immigrants (maybe a human woodsman or an elven archer)

It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up

Refugees, sure

FREE ELVEN SLAVES LET EM IN!!!!!
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