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[Footkerchief]

No, you were correct, it's only dwarves that have it, in vanilla anyway.

[zchris13]

So do martial trances produce masterpiece slaughters?

[ZergSpartan]

The problem with reasearch trees is that we would end up with silly stuff, like a crossbow that shoots bees, or a catapult that shoots GCS.

[Lear]

The problem with reasearch trees is that we would end up with silly stuff, like a crossbow that shoots bees, or a catapult that shoots GCS.

I fail to see the problem here.

Anyways, I think there should only be a few techs which are monumental landmarks for example, the internal combustion engine (I am aware of the pre-1400s tech only) or some other such advance.

[Kanddak]

The problem with reasearch trees is that we would end up with silly stuff, like a crossbow that shoots bees

Totally sounds like something kobolds should have. I saw a pretty cool thread a while ago about beekeeping and honey and mead, I'm sure the military applications would be hilarious.

[praguepride]

Wow, that would definitly make goblins and kobolds tougher: Steel weapons. Ugh! They might actually last against all my +10 ADAMANTINE PLATEMAIL/ ADAMANTINE ARTIFACT SCIMITAR ELITE CHAMPIONS WAAAARRGGGHH!!!!

[Squirrelloid]

Dwarves should be able to research steam engines.  I mean, the Romans invented one, it was just never used for anything because labor was so cheap that it couldn't compete.

But I think I have to come down against DF research in general.  I mean, before you know it some dwarf will invent the personal computer.  Not too long after the internet will follow.  And then all the dwarves will be demanding PCs in their workshops and spending all their time surfing the net instead of actually working.  Like we don't have enough problems with lazy dwarves...

[Shurikane]

ALTERNATIVE?

How about research that improves something by a very minute amount, but in which you will reap some rewards if you dedicate enough dwarf-time to it?

For instance, a dwarf performs research on masonry.  After a long while, his findings allow general masonry jobs to be something like, I dunno, 5% faster.

The farther you get into research, the slower your progress.  So your first few improvements are relatively quick, but you'll need to really work in order to shave extra time off your jobs.

[Squirrelloid]

ALTERNATIVE?

How about research that improves something by a very minute amount, but in which you will reap some rewards if you dedicate enough dwarf-time to it?

For instance, a dwarf performs research on masonry.  After a long while, his findings allow general masonry jobs to be something like, I dunno, 5% faster.

The farther you get into research, the slower your progress.  So your first few improvements are relatively quick, but you'll need to really work in order to shave extra time off your jobs.

Incremental research like that makes no sense.  Inventions are one-time events distributed randomly through time and space, because someone somewhere made the necessary breakthrough.

The correct way to model technology is probably the result of moods and information travelling to the fortress via merchant caravans.

[Fortis]

I'd like to see a 'scientist' or 'scholar' noble that comes to your fortress once it's big enough. If you meet his demands and mandates, he'll occasionally invent a new device for you to construct and play with. The devices or mechanisms that the scholar nible invents is completely random, but may be influenced by what industries you've built in your fortress.

[Uninvited Guest]

WE REQUIRE MORE VESPENE GAS

[praguepride]

Think about it this way. You know how that legendary miner digs faster? Well, he figured out (read: researched) how to dig faster, and now he does!

He can pass it along by telling other dwarves to "just keep digging" and they'll figure it out. There already are ways to improve speed, while the concept of "continual improvement" won't be around for 100's of years. These are dwarves who will sleep on the dirt, drink alcohol directly out of the barrel and fish with their beards. They're not "scientists", they're not "process engineers" and they're not "efficiency consultants."  THEY'RE DWARVES! If it's good enough for their ancestors, it's good enough for them!

[Cogsmith]

I dunno. While the idea of making your dwarfs able to produce better things, or the same things faster appeals to me, I can't say the concept of traditional "research" appeals to me. Particularly if you compare it to reality. See the biggest leaps in knowledge and invention AREN'T a slow and steady progression set down by consistent careful work. Knowledge is most advanced when someone(usually quite, quite insane) individually or in a very small group(rarely more than 5) figures something out, frequently in the middle of stressful times.

I mean Einstein was said to go into rages from which he emerged just knowing things, Tesla is THE stereotypical mad scientist, even Newton just basically went to a farm locked himself up then emerged a while later with a Masterwork Principia.

If we ARE to have research I would move to have it "accidental". Basically any given strange mood that completes successfully has a chance (I would say the more complex the artifact the greater the chance) to alter the game in some fashion, either by making the...whatever it is that was made usable by dwarves(as suggested above), by decreasing the time needed to make the whatever-it-is(suggested by a diffrent method somewhere else) or to permanently bump up all hereafter made whatever-it-is'es by one quality level(maxing at masterwork of course.)

So an artifact stone mug that successfully counts as "research complete" could make stone mugs usable (...somehow. Maybe as a bludgeoning weapon(gogo improvised drunken brawl weapons)) or it could make all stone-mugs complete a little bit faster OR from here on out all stone mugs would be created one quality level better(so basic stone mugs could never be created)

Also: Toady TOTALLY needs to add something like Warcraft voice clips. I always wonder wtf happened when I suddenly have 50+ idle dwarfs, and spend forever looking for threats, blocked paths etc. It invariably turns out to be the same thing: I have run out of lumber, now my carpenters, crafters, bowyers, burners, smelters, smiths, soapers and god only knows how many wood-fetcher peasants just stand around till my legendary wood-cutter deforests a quarter of the map. What's worse is while they're waiting they frequently have parties, weddings, adopt pets, and clutter up my fortress with useless babies.

[praguepride]

...and clutter up my fortress with useless babies.

Damn those promiscuous dwarves!