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[Armok]

Runes are extremely overdone, elements are stiff and also overused, geomancing is inconsistent. Now thats over whit.

I state again however that ALL these shuld be either chose able at worldgen or at least able to mod in, as well as virtually every other magic system eve suggested on these boards, or used in a book/movie/game/other media.

If I had to chose one it would be the classic childstory fairytale system.
Think like the classic Disney movies (the serious ones, not Donald Duck or Aladdin or Shreck) Cinderella, Snow white*, Anastasia, Pocahontas etc. think the original Grim brothers stories. Thats MAGIC magic, not just another kind of science.

I want to play a witch, luring unsuspecting children into my candy house and cooking them whit poisonous shrooms for diner.

There was a quote I remember from these forums but my search skill ain't good enough to find it so here it is from memory:
"Dwarf fortress is probably the only game capable of true fairytale magic, like stealing the color from a princes eye! Her despair, the peoples reaction, the government cover-up story, no other game could handle that whiteout scripts!"

[Toady One]

quote:Originally posted by InquisitiveIdiot:
<STRONG>That Toady occasionally reads these threads is by far the exception to the rule.</STRONG>

Nah, I read almost all of the suggestion threads.  I think that's a responsibility I have, since I put the suggestions board up to take suggestions.  On the other hand, magic threads are something of an exception, since they quite often ignore the "no huge sweeping suggestions without reading dev" guideline, and it's premature.  At the same time, when I do get around to magic, finding all these threads would be pretty easy using the search function, and it could be fun reading at that time.

[InquisitiveIdiot]

Which is why I said you were the exception.  Most people who do creative things ignore any advice coming from people who aren't rich or in the same field.  Others very deliberately avoid ideas that aren't "theirs."  The best way to ensure that Weird Al Yankovic never makes that cool parody you thought of is to send it to him; the odds of a fan whose suggestion was used suddenly getting uppity and demanding a slice of the pie is (in his eyes) simply too high.

Some though, are cool with it.  Another guy who really, really digs his fans is Larry Niven.  Most of his sequel novels spring from forum and newsgroup discussions about flaws and omissions in his current work.  His "Ringworld" series is an excellent example - each book goes back and gives the earlier ones a going-over, resolving inconsistencies and fleshing out the sparse bits.

But back to the topic.

Armok, fantasy stuff can work, but only with a more fleshed out magic system.  Most fantasy magic is given to us as facts, not effects.  You may want magic and not science, but science forms the blocks that sims are made from.

We know that Frau Totenkinder wanted to eat Hansel and Gretel, but we don't know why.  Magical power from cannibalism and infanticide?  Were they just delicious?  

Cinderella's "fairy godmother" gave her a dress and a pumpkin carriage.  Why?  Why only temporarily?  What did the fairy have to do to get that ability?

To contrast these, when our dwarves dig too deep we get to see the whole thing play out.  We may not know why this FUN STUFF is HIDDEN, but we get to hear every single choked scream gurgle gurgle crack whimper gurgle.  And I think that's a very good thing.

[falsedan]

Magic suggestion: Stonespeaking

A stonespeaker is a noble who requires a pick instead of an office. They wander around the fortress, periodically revealing the contents of a random nearby unseen underground square. Certain materials block stonespeaking (lead ores, hidden fun stuff). Range and frequency of revealing unseen tiles is proportional to the value/material of the stonespeaker's pick. A stonespeaker will immigrate once a certain number of different stone types have been discovered.

[Kagus]

Oh, lovely.  Nothing I like more than having my fort speckled with random spots of visible stone in the blackness.

I'm one of those people who makes sure there is never a space of two unmined tiles between rooms, as it is not aesthetically pleasing.

[falsedan]

addendum: revealed stone tiles must be adjecent to an already revealed tile

[Kagus]

Even better.

code:

   0++0
   ║++║
   ║++║
   ║++║
   ║++║
   ║++║▓
   ║++║
   ║++║
   ║++║
   0++0

Ducim Mebzuthkib, Stonespeaker, has detected granite!

Might be better just to leave the tile covered, but simply recieve a notification as to the general whereabouts of a potentially profitable ore vein.  You could zoom to the location through the stonespeaker's settings, but it wouldn't have it as an open tile until you uncovered it through mining.

[SirHoneyBadger]

InquisitiveIdiot: You just sort of skim through whatever I read and decide for yourself what you think I actually said, right? Well I'm sorry, but I can't afford to waste any more time beating a dead horse-in this case a dead, stuffed, blind and deaf horse with an agenda-so I'm not going to bother responding to any more of your crazy ranting, atleast until your arguments proceed from something I actually said, to something that is a legitimate response. Hopefully someday you'll come around, because I quite liked a couple of the descriptive ideas you had for Runic magic, especially the part about the singing.

To anyone who's actually paying attention, or cares to have, or is even interested in a two-sided conversation that isn't going on in their own heads, I'd like to reiterate:

My position:
For Runic magic? Check
For Elemental magic? Check
For any other kind of magic that A: is well thought out and has a chance of working, B: is fun, and C: is thematic? Check
For silly kinds of magic such as pokemon? no, definitely not.
Against silly kinds of magic such as pokemon? check.

To everyone except InquisitveIdiot, I put this question: Is it better, when constructing any given complex mechanism such as a combustion engine, a hang-glider, a fine wristwatch, or a computer game, is it better to A: have some kind of well thought out plan, instruction manual, and/or schedule, or B: just sortof hurl the parts at one another, in the hope that eventually they'll come together in roughly the shape you want them to be?

I don't pretend to "have my finger on the pulse of the community" or to be an authority on Dwarf Fortress. I'm learning as I go, but I will say that a game that has systems in place dealing with water temperature and pressure, geology, minerology, metal alloying, and weather, is more likely to increase in realism (and it's been stated, atleast in the Wiki, that things like "spinning vorpal blades of vomit" are bugs), rather than decrease, and therefore, it makes sense that any magic system put into the game also follow rules, laws, and an internal logic.

To Toady: I did, by the way, thoroughly read the Dev pages, and as many Suggestion posts on magic as I could find, before I ever wrote my own. I'm also playing the game and am reading my way through the Wiki.

Thank you very much for Dwarf Fortress, it's great entertainment and it obviously took a lot of hard work.

As per everyone else: Qwertyuiopas, I really like your idea about how magic might be revealed over time and then spread throughout the world. Maybe  different systems of magic going in completely different directions which are, themselves, only revealed piece by piece over time, under certain conditions of your fortress, or by say Dwarf Philosophers or other mysterious types, like falsedan's stonespeakers (another idea with a lot of potential), or outcasts from other races.

Armok: fairy tale magic, especially some kind of evil witches (if we have the 7 dwarfs, why not Queen Grimhilde-and where's Snow White, for that matter?) present in the game, would be awesome. Dwarfs themselves might be able to use some of the kind of magic you describe, too, maybe by gaining a Legendary skill in Persuasion or other esoteric skills? Maybe spells themselves could be language-skill "artifacts"?

I don't know how others feel about it, but I like the idea of the different skills in the game all having their own separate potential for greatness, and having different schools of magic in the game could help this out a lot, if they're skill-based.

Fenrir, great idea about Geomancy. It really reminds me of Feng-shui.  
I'm not sure how it would work though, because what you're describing would seem to restrict the player's choices about how to design their fortress.

Tieing this into Runes: maybe Engraving by Legendary Engravers could include or encompass a range of magical effects? I've got my own ideas about Runes which I'll post when I get around to it, but this is another one. If they could Engrave magical Runes onto the walls of a Fortress, then that might give somewhat of what you're talking about. And the discovery of the Runes, themselves, could perhaps occur in-game by a dwarf producing a separate Engraving "artifact" per Rune? The event would then allow other Dwarfs to utilize that specific Rune, or combine them with other discovered Runes for other/greater effect.

[Earthquake Damage]

quote:Originally posted by SirHoneyBadger:
<STRONG>Well I'm sorry, but I can't afford to waste any more time beating a dead horse-in this case a dead, stuffed, blind and deaf horse with an agenda</STRONG>

To paraphrase Inigo:  You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.

To clarify:  Dead horse does not refer to the person you're arguing with.

[ February 20, 2008: Message edited by: Earthquake Damage ]

[InquisitiveIdiot]

Well, I was going to reply with a simple BAAAWWWW, but something caught my eye:

quote:Hopefully someday you'll come around, because I quite liked a couple of the descriptive ideas you had for Runic magic, especially the part about the singing.

I never mentioned anything about singing.  No one has suggested anything to do with singing, at least in this thread.  Perhaps before chastising others for not reading your posts you could make a modicum of effort to do the same, instead of letting the voices in your head fill in the gaps.

Regardless, it's good that you're no longer rejecting the use of runes a priori.  Not to beat a dead horse, but I've repeatedly stated that's all I was aiming for.

...Singing?  I mean, "hiho hiho" and all that, but singing as magic sounds almost... elvish.

[Earthquake Damage]

Could be a typo.  May've meant "signing."

Also, ay spel gud.  Nuthin' beats makin' a typo while discussing typos.

[ February 20, 2008: Message edited by: Earthquake Damage ]

[InquisitiveIdiot]

Could have been, but "signing" doesn't make sense either.  Think there's any chance he could have been trying to type "rational thought?"

[SirHoneyBadger]

InquisitiveIdiot: It was the line you had, before you edited it out, about Runes singing, right around where you mentioned your enchanted sword whispering I believe, but feel free to deny it, because I don't care if I was wrong, or even if I was right and people think I was wrong, because you've certainly given me plenty of reason not to pay much attention to anything you have to say. Atleast if I was wrong about a single word you did or did not use, it's a lesser crime than ignoring or subverting most of what you've said.
Communication with you is a useless, wasted effort, aka beating a dead horse.

And Earthquake Damage, I was metaphorically referring to him as a dead stuffed, deaf, blind, horse. I was referring to trying to have a meaningful conversation with him as beating a dead horse.

[Earthquake Damage]

quote:Originally posted by SirHoneyBadger:
<STRONG>enchanted sword whispering</STRONG>

Haunting Whispers of Forgotten Dead or whatever it was?  I think that was the name of a really bad ass artifact adamantine long sword in one of the "name your best artifact" threads.  It was pretty awesome.  Run a quick search.

[SirHoneyBadger]

That does sound good, thanks. I just had one of my dwarf children forge my first artifact and become legendary in stonecarving. It's a proud moment in any father's life.