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Author Topic: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?  (Read 2897 times)

Martin

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2009, 06:14:46 pm »

Walls and moats to funnel the enemy. Currently two approaches to the fortress with a drawbridge on each, though one or the other is always open. This was necessary for a very small population to be able to manage the large construction projects far from the core of the fortress, by closing off one entrance. With a no-immigrant fort and a zillion kids running around, not doing this would have killed the fort very early on between population loss and tantrums. I also employed a deep weapon trap field early on when I basically had no military because ambushes showed up very early and often, but I took that down around the time I got my 2nd professional soldier.

No traps near the outer defenses, but one row of weapon traps near the inner defenses to serve as a last resort line (10 masterwork obsidian swords per trap, so it's a very effective line...). So far only gets snatchers. Ambushers never get close. No cage or stonefall traps. Mostly because dwarves can't resist wandering out in the middle of a battlefield to pick up a stone, and there's really no way to prevent dwarves from trying to reload traps and whatnot.

I don't have any champion markdwarves - as soon as they hit champion they switch over for wrestling, then hammer training. Even so, a pair of champion hammerdwarves and 4 or so training marksdwarves has had no trouble with 4 ambushes per season. I've had a remarkably small number of ranged gobbos come, however. It think no more than 6 out of at least 400. It's really quite odd. I'll be hitting 80 pop in about a year, so we'll see what sieges do for things. Around that time I'll have a ballista guarding each entrance. The entry roads are long enough that the ballista can't reach the end, so I can have it fire blind to thin out the siege numbers.

I don't expect I'll ever close a drawbridge to lock an enemy out entirely - mainly they are there to lock enemy in so I can finish them off. I did lock my fortress up altogether one time when I had an exceedingly slow trade wagon come that buttoned up all the others behind it (every walking trader with pack animal was laying down the entire time - it was very odd). It would move maybe 20 tiles per day and there were two ambush squads heading for them that would easily have overtaken them (spotted thanks to a mountain goat). I think the guards would have taken care of the ambushers, but I didn't want to have to clean all that crap up way out at the border if they failed, so I pulled the bridge up right behind the last trader, waited until the wagons got a bit closer to my inner defense line, and then opened it.

So far, the defenses has been pretty easy (too easy) since that 2nd soldier came online. My next fortress (already started but no map up yet) has upgraded gobbos and orcs, is also no-immigrant, and I've limited myself to only one of each type of automatic trap, with unlimited pressure plate/lever traps. And the fortress is hostile to humans on top of those two, so it's been pretty hard so far. Buttoning up the fortress is necessary when you get a siege of ranged units against only 10 dwarves with almost no military skills to speak of.

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Iapetus

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2009, 10:25:02 am »

My previous several forts were basically invincible - the only ways in were by drawbridge over ditches, so there was no way a siege could bash their way in, and I had an enclosed for farming, with archery towers flanking the exits.

I decided this was boring, so my current fort uses flood-gates instead of a drawbridge, so if the enemy brings any building destroyers, they will be able to break in.

That said, I must confess that they will then have to cross a 3 wide 10-rank deep array of cage traps.  Although that's only enough to stop two ambush parties.  Some elves got into my fort the other day because the second party was riding on (invisible) horses, and my cages couldn't trap all of them.
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azrael4h

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2009, 11:11:06 am »

I very rarely use traps; mostly because vanilla's combat isn't exactly difficult. I rely entirely on defensive structures and military might. I also hate micromanaging a huge number of dwarves, so a good portion of my population ends up in the military or sub-military. I also don't use siege engines, as I can't load dwarves into the catapults just yet.
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Scruga

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2009, 11:39:00 am »

I do use traps, but it have to be "Activated" traps. For instance i don't use weapon traps but upright spears and spikes so that when i use them dwarves could be in danger too. This is a fun way and makes it some what harder.
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Protactinium

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2009, 10:00:32 pm »

No cage traps.
No atom-smashers.
No invincible lock-out with walls.

That said, I absolutely love the drowning chamber. I have the spiral ramp entrance to the lowest Z-level, with a Trade Depot on the bottom level and entrance to my fort behind there. I use a lever and time manually when to pull it to let the river into my depot area. It works for both orc sieges and when the merchants have something I want that's really expensive.
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Skorpion

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2009, 11:48:20 pm »

No cage traps.
No atom-smashers.
No invincible lock-out with walls.

That said, I absolutely love the drowning chamber. I have the spiral ramp entrance to the lowest Z-level,

How do you drain it if it's on the lowest level? Pumps?
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kefkakrazy

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2009, 11:53:58 pm »

You could just have a huge open room on the lowest level that's cut off from the depot chamber while a lever is thrown.
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Martin

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2009, 11:57:14 pm »

How do you drain it if it's on the lowest level? Pumps?

I think he means the lowest z-level of the fortress, not of the map.

Rysith

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2009, 01:03:25 am »

Primarily melee troops (migrant hunters turn into marksdwarves, but that's about it. Currently six out of 67 military dwarves with crossbows, in a 119 dwarf fort).

Few, if any traps, and only on paths that require dwarven intervention to take. Exceptions for complex, manually triggered traps, because the Hand of Armok is too dwarven to ban.

Orc mod.

Always-pathable fortress, with an exception for the first-year orc siege. In general, sallying out to meet invaders rather than waiting around inside the fortress for them to come.
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Katsuun

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2009, 06:09:17 am »


I decided this was boring, so my current fort uses flood-gates instead of a drawbridge, so if the enemy brings any building destroyers, they will be able to break in.


I thought floodgates were one of the things building destroyers cant destroy?
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Akigagak

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2009, 07:55:47 am »

One of my first magma forges went HORRIBLY WRONG because the floodgates melted.
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Sinergistic

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2009, 01:17:33 pm »

In general: Reduced bolt damage and changed damage type, no/limited numbers of automatic traps, perma open path to fortress.

And then I add in more rules depending on the fort I wanna play. My last 'siege' fort had a no sparring rule in effect. You either went out and fought and survived to get better, or you got killed and some other shmuck got your stuff.
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Dameleth

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2009, 01:21:59 pm »

Don't usually do much, but what I do do is my military and gates. The gates purpose of course never to keep anything out, but to keep things in. The moment enemy forces finally enter the gates shut. The only way out is to kill every single dwarf, or we get them.  ;D
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James Sunderland

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2009, 10:59:16 am »

Well I often implement a "Field O' Death" with upright wooden spikes that are around the entrance. Then I set Pull Lever to repeat. It's rather unfair...
but one shot from a spike doesn't always kill them instantaneously. It just cripples them. I imagine the second spike goes through a limb as they are on the ground, and the third seals the deal with a spike to a vital organ. It's all chance really. I've seen an elf survive about eight skewerings before he was down for the count. 
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praguepride

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Re: How do you limit yourselves in fortress defense?
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2009, 01:25:44 pm »

To limit myself (and make things realistic) I

a) Don't put any traps out in the open. Having cage/stone/weapon traps built in the middle of a field seems rather stupid. At most I'll do upright spike traps because those might make sense "realistically" (as realistic as a fantasy game can be) but I mean come on. A stone-fall trap in the middle of an open field? Dwarves are technical geniuses (and masters of camoflauge) if they can pull that off. Not having the stone hidden in a tree or anything, just flat out in the open.

b) Anyway, so no traps out in the open. No fields of traps except as a last resort. No "invincible lock out" strategies. I have drawbridges but I never use them.

c) No magma/water traps. I have a water moat and a magma inne rmoat, but no way to use it unless I get lucky and decide to retract a bridge while enemies are on it. It's mostly there for show and to keep out wild animals.
Basically my entire fort defense relies on marksmen and the "spiral of doom". When the seige comes it gets funneled into a huge windy staircase that goes down many z-levels. Then at the bottom they have to traverse a spiral around a central fortified pillar that contains my marksmen and all the ammo. Basically I station marksmen at every fortification in the central pillar and as the enemies wind around and around and around the marksmen pepper them with bolts. I also have a lever I can pull that seals the entrance/exit. This isn't to keep stuff from getting in, but to keep the gobbos from fleeing to safety!

Anyway, after winding around they get to the stairs, and wind around another spiral (this one is at the same z-level as my central archer pillar, but seperated from it by 2-tile channel and foritifcations to protect the dwarves). And then after that comes the weapon traps. So far nothing has ever gotten to the weapon traps. When they route I just send in my melee'rs to finish the mess.

And then the hauling begins!
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