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[Zonk]

Variuous,confused,strange ramblings of a mad man:

Well i managed to write something,despite school and
earthquake problems(here,in italy,there were some small
tremors...in my town,nothing dangerous...im still alive...
Armok LOVES me)

Sex/Castes:Add the possibility to make creatures that have more than
two sexes. Also,add the possibility to create species with only
one sex..But not "beings".Im referring to creatures that actually
have only a "female"or "male"version. For example,Satyrs are
ALWAYS male and Nymphs and Dryads are ALWAYS female. They have
one sex...but they re not sexless.Umh,actually Dryads are impossible
to do since they are bonded to the lifeforce of a tree...For this
we will need the magic version i think.

Also,VERY IMPORTANT,allow to create DIFFERENT caste systems,with
a number of castes different from fours.(im referring to
the "Complex"caste system"...what if i want a race with six
castes instead of fours?)Also,what if caste and sex CAN combine?

Remove the 5000 Limit on bonuses for attributes...I think sometimes
5000 is not enough...I suppose a Strenght 100 human can lift
his body weight. Some beetles can lift up to 700 times their
body weight.That means something like...Strength 70000!
But probably creatures like this haven't got an exceptional muscle
strenght...they have a load bearing frame or something,right?
Well,anyway just remove ALL LIMITS!THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE
A LIMITLESS AND INFINITE RPG!!!

Health and Anatomy:We should be able to choose what a creature
breathes.And what it exhales. Who said that our creatures must
breathe oxygen? Maybe creature who can create a bio-elettric shock can
get oxygen by electrolisis when underwater?
And we should be able to choose things like the "elemental base"of
the circolatory material. Currently,in this
game blood is red just because we said it is so...not because it
contains iron!Same things for other materials and tissues...
We need to define human bones as "calcium based"so,when we will
have eating and digestion,we will have warriors drinking
gallons of milk before battles to harden their bones :-)
(personally,i almost vomit after half a quart/liter of milk)
Another important thing is circulatory pressure.And,about pressure,
let's not forget pressure support,especialy for underwater creatures.
Also,i think it would be right if "rubber-like"tissues could lessen
damage from crushing impacts. Trolls(they re my favorite race...)
are actually described as being "rubbery"...Also we will need
new "types"of wounds,like fire and acid burns(something that
will be able to really wound my trolls)and radioactivity(that,
since this is a fantasy game,could effectively turn your character
in a green superstrong troll-like monster)Another important thing
is that we NEED fat tissue...Probably it will get added in the food
release,right?

Materials:In the materials editors,we should be able to define
things like radioactivity and general toxicity...Or maybe general
toxicity of materials should be defined on a species-for-species
basis in the creature editors?By the way,Toadyone,i thought about
it,and i think that the rarity of a material should depend
not only on what we set in his attributes,but also in the game
world. Gold is rare...On Earth. Maybe,in some remote corner
of this almost-infinite Universe,there's a planet composed
for a good part of Gold,Silver and Platinium
Does any of you know Athas,for example?It's a world were metal
is RARE!It would be cool to create a world were gold,silver and
diamonds are common and iron,carbon,and plutonium/uranium are
incredibly rare!Immagine...how would an army with weapons
made of lead fight againist one with weapons of iron?This
could also leads to more non-metal craft skills...

Varius forms of "things" for creatures races...
These should be possibile in the magic release...Since you are
implementing not only Magic but,in general,a lot of cool effects...

Think to:

"breath attack",meaning fire/acid/electricity/gas/other things.
These materials/things could be expelled from the nostrils,mouth or
other...emh...apertures(hei..i know what you re thinking...what
about a fart demon?)

"external acid production",think to formic acid for ants.

"special gaze",usually polymorphs living tissues in a stock
material,ussualy stone for Basilisks and Medusas(the serpent-headed
ones!).At this point we will need to add the option to close your
character's eyes!

"special touch",similar to special gaze...except of course
that the creatures need to touch his targe. Note that,
unlike the gaze,this usually works on unliving tissue as well!

"bio-electricity",think to many acquatic creatures like eels

"special flight",meaning flight without wings or jets or air spheres(
remember beholders)...Think to "will o wisps" who float. This
is just "unnatural"flight.

"blood draining",meaning teeths that can actually absorb other
creatures blood...This isn't restricted to undead vampires!But
i think that for this we have to wait the food release...

"regrowth",meaning the possibility to regrow severed parts and
limbs. This should be decided on a part-for-part basis in the
species editor. So we can finally have really invulnerable
trolls...Except to fire,acid,drowning and starvation...DAMN...
Also,if a creature loses his memory/sense center,and then regrows it back
,he probably loses all his skills and a part of his mental attributes.
Unless...Maybe EVERY cell of his body has his memory and skills
in it..
Of course,if we are talking about "realistic"regrowth,then
a creature needs NUTRIENTS to regrow parts!One day,
my one-armed troll will be seen eating raw squirrels to regenerate
:-) Course,some creatures can also "reattach"their limbs,so
there is no need to wait.

"vulnerability/resistence/immunity"this is VERY important.It
could also refer to material.Faery creatures,including sometimes
elves,are usually vulnerable to "cold iron".
Lycantropes(lycantropy is actually a CONDITION/CURSE,not a race)
are hurt by silver...Umh...Maybe lycantropes are also hurt
by "quick silver",mercury

Magic:Magic....umh..magic is ONE of the most important things
in most fantasy world.

Some magic rituals that i want to remember you:
Gestures
Speaking / Screaming / Praying / Singing
Dancing
Thinking / Concentration
Sprinkling crushed things/dust/liquids
Sacrifice(personal/items/other creatures)

Also,some effects(Affect means increase/decrease):
Note that there MUST be some subeffects.For example,i wrote
Affect Phsyical Attribute,but i really mean "Affect Strenght",
"Affect Dexterity" and "Affect Endurance".Also,maybe you
kould know this in only a way...A mage could only be able
to increase strenght,but not decrease it...

Affect Temperature
Affect Phsyical Attribute
Affect Mental Attribute
Affect Size:I suppose this works for weight to.This comes in
handy when your titan mage needs a weapon. He can enlarge the
weapon...Or make himself smaller. You decide.
Affect Age:Useful for climbing. You take a LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITLE
plant and make it grow until it becomes a BIIIIIIIG oak.(this
is different from just making it larger)
Affect Mind:This is different from Affecting Mental Attributes.This
is mental domination!The ability to make others do your bidding...
Affect Skill:Umh...don't know if it's fair)
Affect Movement
Affect Weather
Affect Gravity/Energy/Magnetism/Pressure/Forces :Different effects
for different forces.And energies,of course. Can't wait
for "Affect Nuclear Energy".
Create material/force/energy:Useful for creating fires,but
also for "force bolts".
Shape material/force/energy:Combined with create,this is
for force shields/walls.Creating and shaping energy can
be used for "telekinesis"magic.
Convert material/force/energy to other material/force/energy:
So i can have the "philosoper stone",and convert lead into
gold...Wait!There is no "lead"stock material...And there are
no shops so gold is worth nothing...Umh...Well...I will wait.
Disintegration:Umh...maybe this is "Convert material(any)to
energy(light)?
Polymorph
Teleport creature/material/item/force/energy
Summoning:Basically,"Teleport"but on creatures/things in
distant places. If we create a basic "demon"races,and
make them vulnerable to summoning...
Wound Creature
Heal Creature
Regrow
Paralyze:Umh...we need to define this.Do paralyzed creatures
breathe and hear?Or are they COMPLETELY oblivious?Maybe
there should be several versions.
Attach:Severed body parts and intem components
Levitation/Flying:What would happen if we use this on a BIG
tree?The tree flies from is roots?
Possesion/Mind switching:So we can have a kobold who switches
in a titan body.
Dimensional travel:An "higher"form of teleport actually.
Crete dimension:So i can have my LIIIIIITLE personal dimension.
I will put the bodies of my enemies in it,and plants some
trees in it.Yea,i WILL "Create material:soil","Create energy:light",
"Create liquid:radiation".

Examples of possible conditions/limitations/flaws/costs for certain
magic effects:

Some creatures can't cast magic
Some creatures are resistant or immune to magic
Magic only works at day/night
Wounded creatures cast spells worse
Casting makes caster sleppy
Casting makes random wounds appear on caster
Casting spells costs energy/air

Examples of combinations:

Items Release:In a few releases,if im right,we will have complex
items.That's COOL!Will we be able to construct them
using the appropriate tools and materials or,in the first release,we
will have to get them from other creatures?Will my giant be able
to defeat an elephant using a big boulder he found as a melee
weapon,then rip the damned elephant tusks and use them to work
the skins to get a decent armor?Immagine how much skin/flesh/bone
we can get out of creatures like titans or dragons...We could
also get formic acid from ants!Also,since to tan hides
we need oil,will we be able to get oil from plants?And what
about getting stomach acids from bodies(human stomach acid is
strong enough to melt iron,if im right)

But it's also hard to work these tissues without tools(or tough
claws!)
Also,think to skills...What skills will we have?Sewing?Building?
Material Familiarity?Measuring?Will the player really be able to
build a "workshop"or "warehouse" for items?
I think the items release is going to be one of the best!!!
Immagine how many things you can do with an animal body!
You can make weapons with the teeths,armor with the bones and
skin...Hei...You can do anything! Why not just grab a dragon's
rib and use it to stab others?Or use a giant beetle carapace
as torso armor?A titan could easily use a tree as a club!

Squirrels:Not bad really...But WHY is their Strenght 1 and their
Endurance 2500?Remember,my friends,that Strenght is RELATIVE to size!
Anyway,what about making a race called "Giant Killer Carnivore
Squirrel"?

NEW RACES:I made a new race that i will send when i have "refined"
it..ther ace is orcs...

Ha...Toadyone,remember that there's still the BIG BUG with
weight..Humans weight around 20 kg...As i said before,
i think the problem is with materials density.

Also,if i turn the camera in a certain way and zoom on my
character..the model dissapears...If i turn it another time,
the model re-appears.
This bug happens with items,too...But unlike the  character bug,item
models don't reappear...

Various ideas for things we can and should do with the editors:

A "jelly""motif
A "construct"motif for golems and the like.
An "amorphous"form,for jellies and the like.
Some races that i can't manage to do(i have tried)but i
would REALLY like are:
Elephant,Rhino,Gorilla,Bear,Minotaur,Tiger(i did it time ago but
i lost it and it was VERY badly made)

Materials:Some materials we could add are
Mercury,Iron,Lead,Tin,Aluminium,Titanium,Carbon,Asbestos,
Oxygen,Hydrogen.The last two are important for realistic
respiration...and water!!!

BTW,since there was talking about alloys,here are some
of the most know real-life alloys.
Copper + Tin = Bronze
Copper + Zinc = Brass
Gold + Silver = Electrum(used for coins)
Carbon + Iron = "normal"steel
Steel + titanium/nickel/manganese(don't know how to write
it in english) = "special" steel.

If we will have realistics materials,the game will become
VERY fun for those who know a bit of chemistry :-) Like
me.

What about using the "create force(pressure)"and "create heat"magic
effect on coal to make diamonds?So a skilled mage can make some
money.

Also,Toadyone,you should allow to make single-material file,and
add an "Import single material"in the "big"material files editor
.I mean,if everyione of us makes a material, then it gets hard to
reconstruct them to put all of them in a file.

Remember,Toadyone...With your work,you are effectively making planet
Earth better!So,when you are finished,it is worth conquering for me...

[spelguru]

You forgot to mention the motif for 4 legged, 2 armed creatures (my slayerbest). Actually, I have reconsidered trying to create that thing. It would be far to powerful to be an whole race on its own in the world. Just think of it, a legion of them, crawling up the walls, reflecting or deflecting arrows and ripping poor [insert enemy race here] apart. Instead they could be used in some kind of higher demon summon. They should be really hard to summon due to resistance to summon.

Also I really liked the idea about "Create Dimension". I would also like my own little dimension to unleash the full power of an twisted yet strangely beutiful creative mind. The owner of that mind is... MY CATS!!! That is one weirdo cat... But my dimension would be filled with white small pyramids, fountains, statues, gardens and other really nice objects... And then in the middle there should be an really big beutiful tower for my mage to study in. And then there would be the traps. Every single statue would actually be an golem waiting to slay other mages disturbing my studies. Water elementals coming from the fountains and evil vines growing in the gardens. But I have to wait til most of armok is finished. Btw, the pyramids didnt serve any kind of trap purpose, they were just there to look nice.

I would like to thank you for giving me such an long read. Hopefully everyone else will write an long answer.

What I would really like is everyone telling what their own small personal dimension would look like...

[Toady One]

I haven't been in a good earthquake in a while...  there
hasn't been a major one here in my part of California since I
moved back to the state, although there were a few solid shakers...

Hmmm....  In Armok, sexes and castes are the same thing.
Satyrs and forest-chicks-of-various-kinds tie in to
the demons/angels on the future page.  Certain creatures
won't have castes but might utilize the castes of other
creatures.  A satyr might use the human male caste,
and the goat male caste, but be casteless itself.  Any
notion of "sex" it has would come from humans and goats,
and it could conceivably hook up with human and goat females.
So...  to properly do these mythological creatures, as well
as things like centaurs that might be both male and female (?),
there'd need to be a notion of derivative species or something...

Anyway, the caste creator in the editors is just a place-holder
right now.  The code is set up to accept any number of castes.
Even now in the editors, you can call the castes anything you want,
so if you made a satyr, you could call it "male" instead of "being"
or whatever.  You can also force the pronouns to be male.

I think the 5000 limit is there to stop some numbers from overflowing.
The game is supposed to be limitless, but computer limitations
fuck that notion right out of an eight story window.
But with the beetles and so on, most of the amazing figures just
come from the cross-sectional-area-to-volume ratio of small critters,
so the attributes don't need to be modified.  The game does this already.
We've talked about this stuff before...  those little leprechauns
can carry a full-sized dagger longer than they are right now for this
reason.  Insects don't need specialized frames (although they
probably have them) to carry loads that are much heavier than they
are.  Muscle strength is proportional to the square of length, and
the weight of an object is proportional to the cube of length, so
muscle strength dominates weight on small scales, and weight
dominates muscle strength on large scales.  I read an article
that said that a tyrannosaurus wouldn't actually be a chase-down predator
(like a lion) but rather an ambush predator (like a crocodile) because
in order for it to run as fast as it does in the movies, 80% of its
body mass would have to be muscle.  These things change all the
time, so that's probably nonsense...  anyway, maybe it illustrates the concept.
Have I said all this before?  Deja vu...  hmmmm.....

Mathematically,

(.01 length)*(.01 length) = .0001 strength, and
(.01 length)^3 = .000001 weight,

that is

(.01)^2 > (.01)^3, whereas

(100 length)*(100 length) = 10000 strength, and
(100 length)^3 = 1000000 weight,

i.e.

(100)^2 < (100)^3.

What this says is that a creature
with a length of .01 units lifting an object with length .01
has a much easier time than a creature with a length of 100
lifting an object with length 100.  The larger creature is
still stronger on an absolute scale.

He he he...  circulatory pressure...
in the combat release I'll be adding
the "contents under pressure" trailing entrails portion
of the game...  I guess now the trailing entrails will
be able to get dirty with sapphire dust.  Then you'll have
shiny blue glitter guts.  Yeah.  The lithovores will want
to lick them clean.  We can put up a new screen shot and
get the game banned.

Do electric eels actually electolyze water?  I think it
takes a lot more energy to do it.  There's usually enough
oxygen dissolved in water for creatures to get by without
going through the trouble...  but yeah...  when am
I adding atmospheres?  When I do gasses...  I'm putting
fire in the magic release, so I'll need smoke...
if I have smoke I'll do gasses.  Then creatures will
be able to breathe whatever you like.

Fat tissue might be added sooner rather than later.
When I add hair and better faces, I think the fatty layer
might also make its way into the game.  I can do
some corpulent model deformations.  I ate my Thanksgiving meal today
in a dressed-up cafeteria at Stanford.  It was free...  but
I had to sit with six chain-smokers from Portugal
that told me Europeans are thinner than Americans because
they are more health conscious.  I didn't laugh at them or anything.

Material rarity should definitely be world-dependent, but I
didn't think of a way to do that for this release.  I think it
would be really annoying to have to set up the numbers every time
you start a game, so I put them in the material file.  Maybe
those numbers can be taken as the defaults, and people will be
able to change them in the universe definition files later on.

As far as radioactivity and toxicity and chemical reactions and all
that...  how will that work...  we could put materials in broad
classes and have reactions defined between the classes.  We could
have some specific ones, but it would become very cumbersome.
I was thinking about this a bit with minerals and rocks...
you can find things (sulfur, gold, mercury, etc.) in elemental form,
you can find minerals that are compounds of the elements, and you
can find rocks that are groups of minerals.  Most types of rocks
aren't really constrained to specific minerals -- rocks like
pudding stone can be made of almost anything...  rock classification
often refers to the formation process rather than the constituent
minerals themselves.  That makes doing chemical reactions on rocks
as materials in a systematic way difficult.  I could make some kind
of "aggregate" material type for this... or something...
it isn't all that important maybe.

I guess if you cast a levitation spell on a tree, it would
have to be able to lift enough to tear it away from its roots
or to tear its roots away the soil...  the same thing would
happen if you cast it on somebody who is chained by their ankle
to the ground...  something would have to give.  Perhaps
the civilizations can co-opt these methods for their interrogation
procedures.

So let's see...  the Zonk dimension would be a corpse orchard bathed
in light with a river of liquid plutonium running through it?
And the Spelguru dimension...  right, all of you guys are bent.
It'd be a good spell though...  maybe to practice you can make
little pocket dimensions the size of garbage bags, with little
plutonium rivers in them...  that you can dip rats into...  like
feeding them saccharin.  I went to the JJ&F market near my house
on Tuesday...  they stocked some soup nuts that said
"This product may not be safe for human consumption.  It
contains saccharin which causes cancer in laboratory animals."
You could make a helmet pocket dimension that works like a virtual
reality helmet...  except, well, stuff would actually interact
with your face.  I must be getting tired.

I doubt the item release will have lots of tools and processed
materials.  Your giant/elephant example was more what I had in mind.
You can tan stuff with cow brains.  Brain tanning!  That's another
one of those chemical reactions...  that file could get out of control.

We'll have all kinds of skills related to building...  I think
I put a carpenter example on the future pages somewhere.

I'm not sure the weight problem is with the material densities
for humans -- I guesstimated the density of bone and muscle
and skin, but I thought the numbers were reasonable.  Part
of the problem is blood and other liquids --- when a human
is filled with liquid, as it normally is, it'll be a lot
heavier.  Right now, I just take the amount of blood in the
creature and multiply it by the blood density and add it
to the weight total to get a "wet weight".  But there are
lots of constants and so on...  it's a matter of much tweaking
to get it to produce reasonable numbers, especially across
all conceivable species...

I fixed most of the camera bugs for the next release...

There should be bears in the next release.  Bears and rabbits!
I didn't make any specific creatures, but rather bear and
rabbit clades, so that many varieties can be generated.
A clade file basically just takes the motif and constrains
it a bit.  Other creatures and clades will be added with each release...
I have to figure out how to do a good jelly...  the current
model system might not be sufficient.  It sort of relates
to how to do a giant serpent or tentacle...  they both need to occupy
space in a fluid way.  Maybe rivers will be helpful when I get to them.
Or vice versa...

[spelguru]

You dissed my dimension you bastard! I have never been SO insulted! And I get a very strong feeling that you are making fun of Zonks dimensions spell idea with those stupid "pocket dimensions in the size of garbage bags"... If you were here I would throw one of my bloodthirsty cats at you!

[Alanor]

man! I am sooo thrown out the window!
I thought *I* had mad the most insulting remark evever!!!
I mean... "spleg-dude1"

I think the idea with pocket dimensions was to PRACTICE.. i mean..
what kind of wizard starts out making a whole world in his demension???
hmmm?
could YOU do it the first time?
I think not!!!
it takes lots of practice!!!!

and as for non-virtual dimension portal helmets of reality...
that could suck..
hehe

[spelguru]

Yes... Cute... You may be right about the dimensions, annoyanor. If toady meant pocket dimensions for practice, then I humbly apoligize for my harsh words. Forgive me      And annoyanor, MY NAME IS SPELGURU!!! And yes, I could make a big world size dimension in the first try. Wanna know why? Cuz I am SPELGURU (remember, spelguru, not splegdude). And SPELGURU (its s-p-e-l-g-u-r-u) means Guru of Games or Master of Gaming, and since the create dimension spell is in a game, it is logical that I would suceed in my first try.

Now say after me, sp-el-gu-ru. Now that wasnt so hard... was it, annoyanor?

[Captain_Action]

how about spelly  

*hides under rock*

[Toady One]

I had a Speak-and-Spell when I was a kid.

[Denim Sk8r]

I could go for some Spegetteos.

(don't ask how that follows from Spelguru it just does)

[spelguru]

Wow, I am being picked on by caption_action and froggy one and denim skooter... hmmmm. I am so close to feeling insulted, but you made it too much, so instead I am just laffing at all your lame attempts to annoy me you annoying ppl!

[spelguru]

Btw, where did this Kurtulmak or votever his name was go to?

[Kurtulmak]

I am still reading Zonk's post.  And sacking your villages you GNOME.

[spelguru]

I AM NOT A GNOME!!! IF ANYTHING, I AM AN GREATER BALOR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT!!! GRRR!!! Go back to your hut and eat some dwarves!

[Alanor]

lol
-no further comment