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Author Topic: Aluminum from Bauxite and Cryolite  (Read 5473 times)

Tenebrous

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Re: Aluminum from Bauxite and Cryolite
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2009, 11:23:26 pm »

The power running through aluminum smelters is pretty neat. You can stack 10 paperclips tip to tip on top of eachother because of the magnetic field. Jury is still out on the health side effects, though.

I don't think Bauxite as a source of Aluminum is necessarily out of DF's scope... The electricity used in the smelter I visited was used for its induction heated crucibles, so really the only requirement is heat. Since DF features things like dragon fire and (later) magic, either could be harnessed (again, later) to melt Bauxite.

As for the prices, I think they could stay as is (not with the mod above, though) - Dragon fire and magic are not common enough to affect the prices of Bauxite or Aluminum noticeably.
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0x517A5D

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Re: Aluminum from Bauxite and Cryolite
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2009, 11:37:33 pm »

I don't think Bauxite as a source of Aluminum is necessarily out of DF's scope... The electricity used in the smelter I visited was used for its induction heated crucibles, so really the only requirement is heat.

This is really not true.  Heating bauxite is not enough.  The electricity is required.

There is a chemical reaction between the bauxite flux and a carbon electrode.  The reaction only takes place if it is driven by electricity.
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diriel

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Re: Aluminum from Bauxite and Cryolite
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2009, 12:44:49 am »

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nagual678

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Re: Aluminum from Bauxite and Cryolite
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2009, 05:02:23 am »

(Also taking AP Chemistry) Well, one could use pipes (steel) that slowly grow more narrow to increase pressure and heat (as they would point down) that are filled with water - heated to steam by running the pipes through magma( at certian segments). The top of the pipe would be then filled with magma to increase pressure by compressing the steam. Eventually you could shoot out extremely hot steam - which might help smith things. Except - it would be totally inefficient, and would take a large system of pipes and pipe cooling to keep the pipes from melting.
It doesn't get much more dwarven than this.
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diriel

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Re: Aluminum from Bauxite and Cryolite
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2009, 02:30:04 pm »

Actually you really do not *Have* to use electricity:
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9905/Welch-9905.html
Quote
Carbothermal Processing

This is the only nonelectrochemical process that has been considered, although the high temperatures necessitate the use of considerable electrical energy in order to achieve these temperatures. It is based on the idea of an aluminum reduction process analogous to the old iron-making blast furnace, which is a high productivity unit per volume reactor. However, direct translation is not possible for a number of reasons.
Al4C3 formation is favored at temperatures below aluminum and, therefore, becomes a necessary intermediate.
The process temperatures are high (in excess of 1,900°C for any reaction stage), resulting in significant heat losses for all designs.
CO is the overall gaseous product, leading to a high greenhouse penalty (even though some energy credit could be achieved).
Aluminum has significant vapor pressure at the reaction temperature, thus lowering reaction efficiencies. This is aggravated by a potential for suboxide formation. Both can be reduced by alloy formation (as has been proposed).
The considered two-stage reduction process first forms a carbide (T > 1,900°C)

2 Al2O3 + 9C  Al4C3 + 6CO
(although, the presence of excess Al2O3 could also lead to an oxycarbide phase) and then react the carbide with more oxide (at T > 2,000°C)

Al4C3 + Al2O3  6Al + 3CO
The staging of the reactions reduces potential dusting problems through the high gas volumes otherwise released. However, it necessitates accurate temperature control for two reaction sequences in an environment that is difficult to control. Furthermore, the viscosity-composition-temperature relationships for the reacting charges present enormous challenges for operations and design.

Quoted from the above link.

Now to further the postulation:
http://www.applet-magic.com/ancientchina.htm
Quote
Around 2300 years ago, when no one in Europe or the Middle East could melt even one ounce of iron, the Chinese were casting multi-ton iron objects. It was not until the mid-1700's in Europe that such feats of metallurgy were achieved in Britain, the technically most advanced country of Europe. The early success in iron-casting in China was due to a superior form of bellows that delivered a continuous stream of air to a furnace instead of an interrupted stream as from the type of bellows used in the West. No one beforehand would have given much thought or attention to such a seemingly unimportant device as the Chinese bellows, but it turned out to be a crucial technological development.

Another quote from the post right above.

So you see non electrical Super Dwarvenly Aluminum Production is actually possible :)

Diriel
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