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[irmo]

The reason for this forum is that Toady doesn't think of everything.

While we are trying to gently crack down on the N+1th "Mine carts!" thread syndrome, there is no excuse for reflexively shooting down every suggestion with "Toady has already thought of (something vaguely like) that" and/or "I'm sure Toady will think of something good" and/or "That's part of the Whatever Arc."

The fact that something is mentioned in the dev_* pages doesn't mean we should stop talking about it. Exactly the opposite--if Toady is interested in a particular feature, then it's likely to get in eventually and we ought to be making suggestions for how it should or shouldn't work (as opposed to waiting until it's implemented and then complaining that it should be different). This is especially true of the arcs, which are broad collections of ideas, not design specifications.

What ought to be discouraged is posting nothing but "DF should have magic!" and the like. Read the dev_* pages, search for existing threads, and then, if you have something new and interesting to add, SAY IT! (In an existing thread, if possible--this makes it easier to see what ideas are in circulation.)

And if you don't have anything new and interesting to add, SHUT UP! Please don't derail threads with your misguided worship of Toady, Who Has Thought Of Everything.

[inaluct]

inb4 heresy

[Granite26]

I'm not sure I follow your point?

[Footkerchief]

I can get behind the "don't shoot down ideas" part, as long as you're not saying that linking to dev items and past threads is synonymous with "shooting down" a suggestion.  People do use that to shoot down ideas, but it's also an important way to bring context to the discussion, so that threads can break new ground.

That said, I don't really get your point.  People here only tend to say "Toady already thought of that" when Toady did in fact already think of it -- I hardly ever see people here giving Toady credit for thinking of things he never actually thought of.

Anyway, enjoy your flamewar, or was that not what you wanted?

[Capntastic]

Do you have some specific thing you're addressing?  Because there's no need to stir up a flamewar or whatever for this sort of thing.

A lot of times threads are shot down is because they're low content "hey toady should do adventurer skills" type stuff that is both obvious, oft-discussed, and has been addressed in detail in the notes.   There's no specific discussion to be had aside from "Yes, he plans on doing it."

Requesting this thread be locked solely because there's nothing that can be gained from it, I don't think.   I hope someone proves me wrong.

[Dasleah]

:V

[Capntastic]

:V

Dasleah has proved me wrong.

But still, lock this, please.

[Warlord255]

:V≡

Now with 50% more beard.

[Demonic Gophers]

Kill the blasphemer!!!


[serious]
I haven't really noticed much trouble with that sort of thing.  I certainly agree, though, that it's worthwhile to discuss possible implementations and such.

[Ignoro]

Toady is not SPITEFUL ENOUGH TO STRIKE ME DOWN ON THE SPOT, SO I SHALL REPENT AND PRAY HIS MERCIFUL GRACE CONTINUES TO BLESS ME.

No. He's not. Or he hasn't read this yet.

Get with the times, will you? Half the life in the forum is our running jokes.

[612DwarfAvenue]

Toady DOES think of everything eventually. The forum is just here so we can help him think of things sooner.

[irmo]

Do you have some specific thing you're addressing?  Because there's no need to stir up a flamewar or whatever for this sort of thing.

I'm not stirring anything up. We're ten posts into the thread and there's no flamewar yet, because we're all fairly mature and well-behaved people here.

I didn't give specific examples so as not to single anyone out for criticism and thus stir stuff up.

A lot of times threads are shot down is because they're low content "hey toady should do adventurer skills" type stuff that is both obvious, oft-discussed, and has been addressed in detail in the notes.   There's no specific discussion to be had aside from "Yes, he plans on doing it."

I agree. The sort of thing I'm talking about is this:

(Poster 1):  During sieges, and an=mbushes, a few goblins come in stealth. They try to get to your food/beer/well/farm, and poison/soil it. This could lead to a bit more challenge. Also, you might want to have a....sort of a poison checker? If he got your food, that could cause many deaths. Well would be worse if you run out of beer. With the farm, he would make it so everything there would die.

(Poster 2): Poison are being implemented, and Toady won't let us down.

This reads as: Toady is already working on poisons, and undoubtedly has his own ideas about them which are better than yours, so STFU.

In short, I'm asking for a little less clubbing of newbies.

[Duke 2.0]

 Indeed, I can always support more newbie-friendliness. Then again, we do it in a rather mature fashion in comparison to other freeware game communities out there. We mostly mention it is being worked on, and use the search. Generally we don't go "Jeez, use the damn search feature!" or "Idiot newbies."

 Still, dismissing suggestions off the bat because of similarities to something being done is like shooting down suggestions because another thread was made at some unspecified time in the past and one is expected to search for it.

[Capntastic]

We're ten posts into the thread and there's no flamewar yet, because we're all fairly mature and well-behaved people here.

Then what is this thread for?  You contradict yourself with your actions.

Anyways, I see the "Toady's working on this." stuff as fair game.   Toady's implementing poison, yes.   It's fairly obvious to think that he's given some thought as to how creatures and civs will use it.   

This game is in alpha, people seem to constantly forget, and only a fraction of the game is complete.   Almost everything you can play with, now, is placeholder type stuff.   Suggesting, like, 'religions should have specific holidays' is obviously something they will have, if you've read the devnotes and powergoals.  To suggest Toady implement holidays, then, belies a failure to do this, or impatience- both of which are disrespectful.   But, should the poster suggest specific ways to handle holidays, or the effects they could have in-game- that allows for fruitful discussion.   But suggestions which are merely "Toady should put in ______" are useless for discussion almost all of the time.

[Footkerchief]

Anyways, I see the "Toady's working on this." stuff as fair game.   Toady's implementing poison, yes.   It's fairly obvious to think that he's given some thought as to how creatures and civs will use it.  

More like it's fairly obvious that no one person can immediately grasp all the possibilities of a new mechanic like poisoning, especially when it's first getting a proper treatment.  "Poisons are being implemented" was a bizarre and obtuse reply, don't defend it.  That said, it's just one thread -- in other threads people tend to have better reasons for bashing the OP, even if the attitude is unwarranted.