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[ChairmanPoo]

IIRC the Almohads//Almoravid caliphate started as an independent muslim cult in north Africa.

[GlyphGryph]

Anything approaching caliphates in Indonesia maybe?

[Servant Corps]

Anything approaching caliphates in Indonesia maybe?

IndonesiaWarMinister said that he was related to a sultan who claimed to be a "Caliph", however the sultan's definition of a Caliph seems to be slightly different from the orthodox tradition, as the sultan believed there can be more than one caliph existing at any given time.

Anyway, I have a question for this thread. In the article "Pan-Islam and Moroccan Resistance to French Colonial Penetration, 1900-1912" by Edmund Bruke (JSTOR link), it claimed that the Sultan of Morocco had a claim to the title of Caliph. It never pressed this claim, but it didn't want to give it up either, so it did not engage in any official relationship with the Ottoman Empire, which also had a claim to the caliphate. Instead, contacts with the Ottomans were unofficial, so that the Sultan doesn't lose his claim. The Sultan of Morocco still calls himself 'Commander of the Faithful' to this day.

So if Morocco had a claim, but never pressed it, should I consider it a Caliphate? Or no?

[Ampersand]

No, I don't think so. It'd be like calling William the Conqueror the King of France just because he had a dynastic claim. Of course, he DID call himself the King of England and France, but he never had any kind of authority in France outside of Normandy, and no serious historian would ever refer to him as the King of France.

[SirHoneyBadger]

This is interesting. I'm related to both William the Conqueror, and also a diplomat from Turkey who was a noble of the Sultan's court, who was sent to France as an emmisary roughly 700 years ago. The noble's son ended up marrying a French princess while he was there, which I suspect (my dad knows more about our genaeology than I do) is where we're connected to William.

[puke]

So... Something in our recent world news made me think on this old thread, and I wonder:  How goes the book, Servant Corps?  Have you published it yet?  It has my interest.

[Servant Corps]

I have postponed the project for now, mostly because of time constraints and the need to rely on more outside sources. Recent news events, though, shows the need to write such a book, to provide historical context to current events. I might return back to this, though I cannot make a commitment as to when.