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Author Topic: Searchin' for something new...  (Read 2383 times)

Kagus

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Searchin' for something new...
« on: February 21, 2009, 10:35:19 am »

Well, I'm holed up here with a rather depressingly weak laptop, a crazy dog, and a hankerin' for a game that this machine can handle.

I don't have that many games on this thing, it's really just a bunch of roguelikes.  I've burned myself out a little with Incursion, Crawl isn't deep enough to hold my interest at the moment, and Spelunky hates me.


I was wondering if anybody knows of some turn-based or slow RTS games with a minimal degree of micromanagement and as much "life" as possible (Majesty is a prime example of this, with your heroes being completely controlled by the AI.  Basically, something is happening on your side even if you're not the one doing it).  If it's free, all the better.

I was considering the demo to Knights of Honor again, but time limits piss me off immensely.  I don't know of any turn-based (or semi turn-based, such as giving you time to make all your decisions but letting the action flow in real time) strategy games that would really be what I'm looking for, and I'm not even sure I could describe one well enough to find it without just having to play it first.  I basically want the "thinking time" of a TBS with the action of an RTS.

Having time to do everything is important, because I forgot to bring along an external mouse for this thing.  That means it's touchpad glory for this old fop.  I could probably get a mouse from one of the other machines around here (and my granddad probably even has a spare sitting somewhere), but setting up a good mouse-friendly workspace down where I am is not a delightful prospect.

I was just looking at some shots of Demigod (*drool*), and that got me thinking of another type of subtype of game.  You control one character, and all the goons on your side are automatically generated and controlled by the AI.  From what I've read (never actually played it), DoTA is kinda this type of thing.  So something along those lines would also be appreciated, since you get to watch lots of fighting with having to manage all of it yourself.

Free games are preferred, of course, but I will easily make do with demos.  So long as they're not timed.  I can't tell you how much that burns me.


Oh, and if anyone knows how to get Warbreeds working on a machine running XP, feel free to speak up...

Okenido

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2009, 10:39:32 am »

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woose1

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2009, 10:44:24 am »

Hm... Well I heard Dwarf Fortress is preety cool.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/

Besides that, no. I didn't even know Dwarf Fortress was in a genre.
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Kagus

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2009, 11:16:45 am »

On this machine, DF acts like it was supposed to be the one called "Crawl".  I was planning on working on my immaturity mod and then maybe doing some DnG with the new modifications.  Probably a bit raunchy to actually use it for DnG, but it was a thought...

But I haven't been working on the immaturity mod because I seem to think that the next DF update is just around the corner, and that the mod would be rendered obsolete shortly after release or even during production.


Besides, I'm looking for something to relax and just chill with...  This does not necessarily include reacquainting myself with DF modding.


I have a very hard time getting myself to try Globulation 2...  The screenshots and videos I've seen depict something that looks more like an engine demonstration than a game.  Admittedly, it's an interesting AI system, but the visuals and the very gridlike movement don't really appeal to me.

woose1

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2009, 12:30:55 pm »

On this machine, DF acts like it was supposed to be the one called "Crawl".  I was planning on working on my immaturity mod and then maybe doing some DnG with the new modifications.  Probably a bit raunchy to actually use it for DnG, but it was a thought...

But I haven't been working on the immaturity mod because I seem to think that the next DF update is just around the corner, and that the mod would be rendered obsolete shortly after release or even during production.


Besides, I'm looking for something to relax and just chill with...  This does not necessarily include reacquainting myself with DF modding.
Ah. Ummm... a good game that you might want to try is called Black and White 2. (There is a demo) It's not free, but you can order it from any half-decent online marketplace for no more than 20$ new, and 8$ used.
Of course you said that you would prefer it it was free.

Here are some casual flash games that don't suck balls... but not really the type of game you are looking for, as in, DF's genre.
http://jayisgames.com/archives/2009/02/the_space_game.php
http://jayisgames.com/archives/2008/02/powder_game_4.php
(I ussually don't visit that site, as they seem fanatical about the whole, "Gamez R Art" thing.)

You also might want to check out the Grow Series (Even though it is also not in DF's Genre): http://jayisgames.com/tag/grow
These are all the ones I could think of off the top of my head.
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Wiles

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2009, 12:56:35 pm »

Have you ever tried the Guild 2? It's not an RTS, so it might not be what your looking for. It is more of a medieval business simulation/RPG. The goal is to make your family wealthy and influential. There are other dynasties you are competing against tha might try to send thugs to kill of your line or set your business of fire.
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Kagus

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2009, 01:05:39 pm »

I played the original Black and White for years, and then the expansion (one of the few games I have ever completed fully and honestly).  Black and White was a column of shining glory standing proud amidst the rubble of senseless repetition and tedium. 

Black and White 2 is an RTS with some nonstandard features.


Powder is fun, as are all the other games of its type (including one which allowed you to make up new components.  That was lots of fun creating new materials, like stuff that you could pour water on adn it would start to burn).  But it ran like frozen molasses last time I tried playing it...  Might have to try again some time.  A fun little relaxation toy.

Never heard of The Space Game before.  I'll take a look at it later.


Grow, and all its spinoffs, annoy me.  They can only be played by banging your head at the various combinations again and again until you find the one that "wins".  And then it's over.  I can't even really call it a puzzle game, because there is no logical pattern you can work out in order to find the right combination.  It's just a matter of trial and error.


Just downloaded the demo to Heroes of Annihilated Empires again.  If you choose to play as a hero rather than an empire, you can recruit various mercenary villages that will periodically spew out groups of warriors to wander off in the general direction of your enemies.  It's damn hard, since you need to singlehandedly kill off all the guys defending the place before you can claim it, but it's kinda satisfying to see your group of gnolls go out to fight in your name.  Sure, the empire players are so strong by that time that seven gnolls and a harpy aren't going to do diddly, but they look cool.

The only annoyance is that they won't attack other neutral settlements to help you increase your power...  Damn gits.


Guild 2...  Never heard of it.  To the Bat-Google!

Wiles

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2009, 01:20:15 pm »

Guild 2...  Never heard of it.  To the Bat-Google!

If you do decide to try the Guild 2 do not get the Venice expansion. It is buggy and unplayable. Jowood has to be one of the worse publishing companies operating at this time.
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Kagus

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2009, 01:23:32 pm »

Well, despite any (purely unintentional) indications otherwise, I am not actually willing to pay for anything.  The only reason I said free games would be best is because you get the whole game instead of just a slice of it.  No worry of me paying money for something that isn't worth it.


EDIT: Okay, HoAE is horribly put together for that kind of playstyle.  The neutral goons tend to require an intense amount of work to chew through, and you'll need to do a lot of chewing since they're your only source of cash.  And that cash is needed for buying goon camps over to your side.

And speaking of which, even when they're on your side they're practically useless.  If you lure enemies over to their encampment, your guys won't attack them.  I can (almost) understand this kind of behaviour if they're other goons, but I recently had an elven army running after me and my pack of orcs just stood there like idiots, patiently waiting for their forces to replenish enough to launch yet another futile attack against the elven city's guard towers.

The only benefit that can be gained from that would be the orcish shamans who will heal you.  The stupid thing is that they'll also heal enemy goons while they're at it, sometimes in preference of you.

On top of that, even though the forces of your enemies can fall and be called forth again an infinite number of times, you can only die three times before you lose.  Regardless of how high you set the "number of hero lives" option at game startup.

So, yeah...  The game wasn't meant to be played that way.  Which is a shame, because that seems to be what I really feel like playing right now.  And there's no chance of getting the computer to play along.


Doesn't matter what you do or who you choose, you'll only survive for as long as the big boys have someone else to fight.  And your goons will weaken one side (by whatever pathetic amount they are capable of), which will hamper their abilities to keep the other side in check, thus giving you one really nasty badass when the one side inevitably falls.  And then it's just lil' old you sitting there and waiting for the storm to claim you.

Another thing that bothered me was how the goons act when attacked...  I tried leading a group of elven archers through a neutral gnoll camp.  A few stray arrows hit the gnolls and got them angry.  Who did they attack?  Me.  Why?  Guess I was just closer.  But they followed me while the elves ran up into position.  Actually had gnolls running alongside the elves who had shot them, just so that everyone could gang up on the helpless guy.

But then again, the game isn't really all that well polished in the aspects it heralds as its strong points...  Better, certainly.  But not fantastic.

Virtz

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2009, 06:56:48 pm »

(...) I don't know of any turn-based (or semi turn-based, such as giving you time to make all your decisions but letting the action flow in real time) strategy games that would really be what I'm looking for, and I'm not even sure I could describe one well enough to find it without just having to play it first.  I basically want the "thinking time" of a TBS with the action of an RTS.
(...)
Have you tried Laser Squad Nemesis (made by the creators of X-Com) and/or the Combat Mission series? You basically give orders during a command phase and then let it play out accordingly to orders and AI settings during some time period (I think it was 10 seconds).
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Virroken

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2009, 09:30:10 pm »

There's a DotA-like game at

http://www.casualcollective.com/games/Minions

if that's what you're looking for. Waves of AI creeps, player controlled Hero units, and tons of whiny twelve year olds being e-thugs. It doesn't have the same depth as DotA, but it'll keep you entertained for about half an hour.

Protip: Pick the bot with the missile and mortar.
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Kagus

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2009, 09:27:19 am »

Multiplayer only?  Bleh.  I don't like people.  Yeah, I know there's no current AI that's capable of playing that kind of game effectively, but I don't care.  I just want to see hordes of allied critters smashing into hordes of enemy critters while I get to buff up or ignore "my" troops as I see fit.

Ah well.  S'pose I'll just wait for Demigod.


I just don't like how you have to baby each and every one of your units in order for them to be even remotely effective.  The AI is great at grunt work like that because it can give orders to anything on the map at any time.  Players have to move around, which means that it's the faster players, not the better tacticians, who win the game.

Only lame thing with this is that I am a seriously crappy tactician, even though I seem to think I prefer games that emphasize that side of things instead of the speed.  Looking back, my two main strategies seem to be "never fight a battle you're uncertain to win" and "this is mine.  F'off".

Heh...  I liked playing the demo to Sins of a Solar Empire, because it allowed me to focus on my economy while handing out trivial amounts of resources to the other (AI) players in order to keep the peace.  I'd work the black market, bribe pirates to attack players I thought were getting a little too strong, and keep expanding my resource and trade network until I had enough resources to buy the whole damn solar system.  Then, with the insane amount of resources had stocked up while everyone else was spending them to fight each other, I researched the most powerful technologies and built the most powerful ships, and then just steamrolled the inferior techs of the other factions (who were still squabbling amongst themselves).

Or at least I would have, had not the demo timer run out.  Still though, from where I was, nobody had a shadow of a chance.  They had almost developed a reliance on my shipments of resources to fund their war efforts, so when I cut the lines they were left high and dry.  Whereas my economy was just as much of a powerhouse as ever.


That was one of the most fulfilling RTS experiences I've ever had.  Building up a massively powerful infrastructure and using politics, backstabbing and financial superiority to dominate my opponents.  For a hefty part of the game, I was involved in trade agreements and non-aggression treaties with all the other players simultaneously.  From time to time one would ask me to attack one of the others, and I'd just wait for that request's time limit to expire, and thne I'd rub some cash on them to make them feel better.

Sure, it was just the AI being stupid, but it was fun.  Played correctly, it could actually be more effective with other human players (you could arrange for regular resource shipments for them, allowing them to devote themselves to the military, leaving their economy lacking.  You could then "purchase" their mining colonies with an up-front price and the agreement to increase their rationing of resources.  The reason behind getting their colonies would be that by that time, you'd have the refinery network and mining technology to greatly enhance the output of those mines, which would not only increase your own supplies but would also cripple them all the more when you turn your back on them).


Sadly, the political and trading aspect of Sins wasn't really developed as well as the more mainstream combat aspects, so it wouldn't b a fully viable strategy.  And, you probably wouldn't be able to get away with it too often...

Tormy

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2009, 03:01:02 pm »

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Jay

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2009, 07:22:13 pm »

I just want to see hordes of allied critters smashing into hordes of enemy critters while I get to buff up or ignore "my" troops as I see fit.
You might want to invest in Warcraft 3 + the expansion (cheap now) and play DoTA in singleplayer.
Sounds like exactly what you want.
WC3 is also one of the most diverse RTS-genre games I've ever SEEN.
There's pretty much everything there, from baseball to zookeeping.
I haven't seen the zookeeping map in a LONG time, but...
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umiman

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Re: Searchin' for something new...
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2009, 01:12:41 am »

Come play Gang Garrison with us. It's really fun!
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